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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mataza View Post

    I cant account for everyones taste, i wouldnt eat what you like to eat tho.
    Totally fair and I agree 100%. That's all I'm looking for, framing it as a matter of taste or preference and not "If you were invested in other characters you'd feel the way I do" or trying to go the "true fans would..." route. The latter route is both completely untrue and needlessly divisive and antagonistic.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidekick77 View Post
    I don’t think it was overstated. One reason mostly: tumblr. The polarity between a comic forum and a tumblr blog is so extreme, that if both platforms aggregated negative views, surely it can’t be dismissed as a vocal minority offsetting general opinion.

    To me, alienation over Harper Row was a slow burn that simply boiled over with B&R Eternal. When Harper debuted, there was a lot good buzz around this character, almost all of it positive. The assumption then was that she was a new Harold-type or Oracle-type, basically a character that filled a gap. I definitely leaned toward a Harold-type as she was unique in providing engineering support. I was surprised like many when editorial suddenly pushed her into the field as a fighter, without even the benefit of a training build-up, montage, or even flashback.

    This occurred right after Damien was killed. So not only was Harper among a saturated group of field combatants, she was also being teased as a replacement Robin which did not sit well with fans. This happened again after Forever Evil. Her official blue on black costume with the chevron along the chest teased the idea of her being the next Nightwing and people were even less happy about that.

    Yet despite this nutshell game, Harper still had a fanbase. It was B&R Eternal that truly did her in and this is where I come back to tumblr. Harper Row was made for tumblr. This media platform seeks representation not seen in mainstream fiction, to which Harper fulfills a non-binary and/or possibly queer-coded heroine. Yet blogs that once embraced Harper were quick to reject her when it looked like Cass and Stephanie were accessories to her, and being humanized through her.

    On top of the bait and switch, the writing in Eternal that defined her attributes through others was just begging for problems: “You’re smart, Harper. Your tech makes Tim jealous, though he’ll never admit it. You’re angrier than Jason, and that makes you strong.” --I’m surprised Dick didn’t add how inferior his puns are to her quips. Bruce’s exaltation of Harper being the canvas of building a perfect partner “every time” was equally cringe.

    Are we really saying the complaints on Harper were about her having skills? I mean, no one was complaining when she first appeared as a potential engineer for the team.

    There's too much salt with this character. For Harper/Bluebird to come off the bench she needs to work as organically as possible with existing characters; and I think that has to take place in a non-Bat title, maybe even a DC team book. Build new interest and have her prove to readers that she's a hero who plays well with others.
    That's a fair and reasonable take. I don't agree with all of it but I can see where you're coming from. I think the idea of placing her in another setting could work. Maybe a spot with the new Teen Titans. She could fit nicely in the new Wonder Comics corner in general. That line seems to have a nice rounded and inclusive feel to it based on what little we've gotten and the previews. Maybe a spot alongside Naomi later on?

    As far as whether the reaction was overstated, I just had a different experience from you and others. Most of my experience came from real life interactions. If I was going off of mostly online interactions I might feel differently. I probably would, just because online is a much more negative space in my experience. A lot of it comes down to where we go (I avoid the most negative online spaces, so that's definitely a big part of it) and even more so what we're looking for. I truly believe we always find what we're looking for. It's likely I find a lot more positive reactions in general because I prioritize them. I tune out what I find to be overly pessimistic and negative. I want to talk to people who like things and are passionate about sharing their love for them and that certainly shapes my experiences. I can't understand why someone would spend a lot of time on something they don't like instead of just moving on, so I tune those people out. Ultimately whether the negative reaction was overstated isn't really an argument, it was overstated from what I saw and wasn't from another perspective. Both are equally real and valid in the end.

  3. #108
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    She's back in Yesterday's Punchline one-shot, and it seems that the two of them are in a collision course !

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    She's back in Yesterday's Punchline one-shot, and it seems that the two of them are in a collision course !
    It's about time. Tynion was said to have been making plans for her return for some time now.

    I'll need to read that Punchline one-shot, then.

  5. #110
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    It's about time. Tynion was said to have been making plans for her return for some time now.

    I'll need to read that Punchline one-shot, then.
    Honestly, it's a really great issue. You can almost feel the QAnon vibe of it all, really.

  6. #111
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    She's back in Yesterday's Punchline one-shot, and it seems that the two of them are in a collision course !
    Yep! I read reviews for it yesterday, won't be able to read it and form an opinion of my own until the weekend unfortunately. I get the impression they're setting up for a Free-For-All Bluebird vs Punchline vs Clownhunter storyline. After all, any activity related to Joker will be discovered by Clownhunter, and like Harper and Cullen, he functions in The Narrows.
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

  7. #112
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    Harper is awesome
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

  8. #113
    Fantastic Member HunterX's Avatar
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    I get the impression they're setting up for a Free-For-All Bluebird vs Punchline vs Clownhunter storyline.
    Dont care about Punchline, but here for Bluebird/Harper vs Clownhunter

  9. #114
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterX View Post
    Dont care about Punchline, but here for Bluebird/Harper vs Clownhunter
    I feel like the reference to Batman and Robin Eternal is a Chekhov's Gun; as Punchline's trial progresses, Cullen's involvement with Bluff and more extreme fans of Punchline will escalate, someone innocent will get hurt, and that'll get the attention of Clownhunter.
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbats View Post
    I feel like the reference to Batman and Robin Eternal is a Chekhov's Gun; as Punchline's trial progresses, Cullen's involvement with Bluff and more extreme fans of Punchline will escalate, someone innocent will get hurt, and that'll get the attention of Clownhunter.
    I bet we get a scenario where Clownhunter wants to kill Punchline, but Bluebird (taking Batman’s no-kill stance when it comes to villains) will be faced with a bit of a moral quandary.

    (Also, can this thread double as a Bluebird appreciation or can we make a proper one?)

  11. #116
    Harper Row fan Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    I bet we get a scenario where Clownhunter wants to kill Punchline, but Bluebird (taking Batman’s no-kill stance when it comes to villains) will be faced with a bit of a moral quandary.
    I think Cullen's position in all of this complicates all of this. I wouldn't expect Clownhunter to go after Punchline during the trial, but he would go after her followers. Harper's stance would be people make mistakes and are capable change and Clownhunter's position is a clown is always a clown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    (Also, can this thread double as a Bluebird appreciation or can we make a proper one?)
    Maybe I should make one, I've got plenty of commissioned artwork I'd love to show in an appreciation thread.
    I'm currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, DCeased: Dead Planet, Dark Knights: Death Metal, Daredevil, Thor, Nightwing, The Rise of Ultraman and Red Hood and The Outlaws. I'm also trade-waiting the Hickman-era of X-Men comics.

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