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  1. #181
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I didn't know that, People had no idea that preflashpoint timeline and new 52 timelines merged. The martian manhunter being justice league member thing was established in reborn aftermath.right after that a souvenir of manhunter's cape was in the justice league watch tower. Essentially, there have been many incarnations of the justice league. They had disbanded for some reason.the latest version came together after death of superman. This is something i vaguely remember. I could be wrong.
    I guess people are so used to the whole event thing to change things that doing so in smaller ways, which readers had been calling for, cam come off as confusing. I thought that everyone was restored when Clark and Lois got fixed, same with Diana, etc.

  2. #182
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    You mean, beside from the fact that the panels showing him in flashbacks can't be a kid older than say 14?

    There is no way that kid is 17 yet.
    He was 16 in the New 52 when his parents died. And you can't point to how someone looks in regards to age with just art since art can look so different between artists. You need an actual age mentioned. 14 is still much older than pre-flashpoint continuity as well. He looks much older than 10 or 12 in that pic though, which makes the pre-FLashpoint continuities seem less likely for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    The Batman Beyond series is in continuity. I mean, the image I posted even had Duke in it. Plus, Jurgens also said it was in continuity: https://www.newsarama.com/31233-rebi...t-day-dcu.html
    I don't think anyone considers BB in continuity. It does what wants and has been doing whatever since Convergence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Dude, again, as people have said, that was before Superman Reborn basically rewrote the entire timeline. I mean, you realize that Superman's history being changed does not just impact his history, but the history of almost every other character in the DCU, right? There were a lot of things that weren't "canon" before Superman Reborn that were made canon by Superman Reborn. The Death of Superman saga was out of continuity before Reborn happened, now its back in continuity. Hunter: Prey wasn't canon before Reborn remade it canon. Its reasonable to theorize that the same thing happened with Dick's Bludhaven career, since, again, Final Crisis, which is a story that needed Bludhaven to go through certain events to even happen itself, was directly referenced in a recent event.
    Actually Death of Superman was still in continuity in the New 52. It was referenced during Johns Superman run back in 2014. It was one of DC's well known stories so they didn't want to get rid of it despite it not making sense to still be there. I believe they said it was still canon way back at the start of the New 52 too. So just because Superman Reborn happened doesn't make all these pre-Flashpoint stories now cannon. Just like with the New 52 and Death of Superman still being canon back then the timelines are a mess. I mean you can't say that all of Dick's old Bludhaven stories are now canon unless you say the whole Rebirth Nightwing run isn't canon. Since the two can't coexist. They directly overwrite each other. The Rebirth run follows his first time in the city which directly conflicts with his first time in the city in the original Bludhaven story. Blockbuster's character is completely different as well as Dick and his first meeting. The Rebirth story follows Dick and Blockbuster's first conflict in Bludhvaen which is completely different to the pre-Flashpoint one. I don't get how you can have the two work together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Okay, and this couldn't have happened with him as a younger Dick Grayson because...? Again, since Superman Reborn necessarily stretched out the timeline to accommodate an older Superman, it also aged Batman as well.
    It shows they are still going back to the New 52 stories for the character to reference as being "the story" to build on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Dude, again, issue #27 of Deathstroke literally flashes back to when Terra went crazy during the whole Judas Contract arc. Her and Deatshtroke are literally wearing the same costumes and everything.

    The only retcon Priest provided is that Terra survived apparently because Slade was able to calm her down. But he still sent her to infiltrate the Titans. She still went berserk on all of them, including him. Don't know why it says its in Hatton Corners (a fictional town that hasn't appeared since I'm pretty sure the first appearance of the Teen Titans), but whatever.
    That doesn't mean that JC happened. That page you posted confirms it. Deathstroke mentions the Lazurus Contract and then terminates his need for Terra to infiltrate the Titans. That is why she freaked out. That is what happened in the "New 52" version of this continuity. You have to retcon the Rebirth story of Lazarus Contract that Priest also wrote to have JC be canon. That story Deathstroke and Dick made a contract to directly stops the JC story from being able to happen. The two can't coexist as the contract was directly made to stop Deathstroke from going after the Titans the way he did in the old continuity and it wasn't revealed until recently that they made a deal. That was the "New 52" version of JC just like this Titans team with Dick is the New 52 version of it where Abra Kadabra erased all their memories of it and then erased New 52 Wally directly. This Titans team is still going off the continuity of Donna being a weapon the Amazons made as well. They are still building on that which is based on the pre-Rebrith continuity from Abnett's Titans Hunt story.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Also, I feel like I should point out that I didn't say this was 100% Pre-Flashpoint. The current universe is certainly more close to Pre-Flashpoint than it currently is to the New 52 universe. That's just a fact, since we're getting Pre-Flashpoint continuity referenced all the time. For example, Lagoon Boy in Heroes in Crisis literally just referenced being attacked by the Sons of Trigon, which happened in Geoff Johns's Teen Titans run. So, that's back. The JLI is also back in continuity as referenced by several writers. Likewise, Tim's origin is once again a Lonely Place of Dying and he was absolutely the third Robin again. Again, Year One has referenced as being Bruce's origin multiple times by several different writers. And also, just so you know, Babs was 100% Oracle again and she founded the Birds of Prey alongside Dinah. In fact, the entire beginning of the current BoP series was predicated on her finding out that someone else had taken up her old Oracle identity. There are countless other examples. So, you're right, its still not 100% Pre-Flashpoint. However, you are absolutely wrong to say that the current continuity is built upon New 52. Its not. Too much of the New 52 has been buried in order for anyone to say that the current continuity is laid upon a "New 52 foundation." Its more like New 52 elements have remained in certain parts of the universe, but that post-Rebirth/Reborn continuity is definitely drastically different from the New 52 continuity.
    Not all continuity is based on New 52 continuity, but a lot of it is. I didn't say Babs wasn't Oracle before but she wasn't Oracle in the way she was pre-FLashpoint. Where she started in the SS squad and then formed a BoP team that way. Then you have characters like Steph and Cass that directly conflict with the old pre-flashpoint continuity since neither served as Batgirl anymore. The Batman line is filled with things like this. I think that we are still in the continuity that we were in right before Rebirth aside from a few franchises deciding to completely overhaul themselves like the Superman and Wonder Woman ones, but many haven't completely changed and are still building on stories that happened before Rebirth that directly conflict with pre-Flashpoint continuity, which is what is making this whole thing so confusing.
    Last edited by Badou; 01-11-2019 at 03:46 AM.

  3. #183

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    Honestly I'd learn to stop caring about continuity lining up a long time ago. Im not fond of them getting deaged but the issue is fun, the new characters are intriguing and Conner in Amethyst's realm is intriguing so im on board.

    I just hope its cheaper than 4.99. Bendis tends to be thin with his issues so I'll end up tradewaiting it.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    He was 16 in the New 52 when his parents died. And you can't point to how someone looks in regards to age with just art since art can look so different between artists. You need an actual age mentioned. 14 is still much older than pre-flashpoint continuity as well. He looks much older than 10 or 12 in that pic though, which makes the pre-FLashpoint continuities seem less likely for it.
    In the Golden Age, he was at least 12 when he became Robin.

    I don't think anyone considers BB in continuity. It does what wants and has been doing whatever since Convergence.
    But it still is in continuity.

    Actually Death of Superman was still in continuity in the New 52. It was referenced during Johns Superman run back in 2014. It was one of DC's well known stories so they didn't want to get rid of it despite it not making sense to still be there.
    It wasn't though. During the New 52, they published a weird flashback sequence that was sort of the Death of Superman but really wasn't and was meant to serve as some replacement for the original story. There was no Reign of the Superman, Superman didn't meet Steel, there was no Hank Henshaw, Mongul and Henshaw didn't destroy Coast City, etc. But all of that was brought back post-Reborn.

    It shows they are still going back to the New 52 stories for the character to reference as being "the story" to build on.
    Again, a few New 52 elements do not make it the foundation of the current universe. We’ve seen too much revert back to its Pre-FP status quo.

    That doesn't mean that JC happened. That page you posted confirms it. Deathstroke mentions the Lazurus Contract and then terminates his need for Terra to infiltrate the Titans. That is why she freaked out. That is what happened in the "New 52" version of this continuity. You have to retcon the Rebirth story of Lazarus Contract that Priest also wrote to have JC be canon.
    Dude, again, no. The scene from the page I posted is literally ripped out of the Judas Contract storyline. Its from the penultimate scene where Terra is freaking out in the H.I.V.E. headquarters and yelling at Slade for lying to her because she interprets his sparing Joey as being "soft." Again, they're wearing the same costumes and everything:



    To get to that scene, that means that literally the entire rest of the Judas Contract story happened.

    Not all continuity is based on New 52 continuity, but a lot of it is. I didn't say Babs wasn't Oracle before but she wasn't Oracle in the way she was pre-FLashpoint. Where she started in the SS squad and then formed a BoP team that way. Then you have characters like Steph and Cass that directly conflict with the old pre-flashpoint continuity since neither served as Batgirl anymore. The Batman line is filled with things like this. I think that we are still in the continuity that we were in right before Rebirth aside from a few franchises deciding to completely overhaul themselves like the Superman and Wonder Woman ones, but many haven't completely changed and are still building on stories that happened before Rebirth that directly conflict with pre-Flashpoint continuity, which is what is making this whole thing so confusing.
    Again, yes, there is some New 52 continuity left over, but its not as much as you think, and its not the "foundation" of the current universe. The majority of franchises now operate off of Pre-Flashpoint continuity, including DC's own flagship characters. And, yes, that includes Batman too because YO has largely referenced as being his origin again. Also, the New 52 elements that have been left over seem to simply be there to tie into the Rebirth plot line. For example, Steph and Cass have actually been made aware of their Pre-Flashpoint pasts as Batgirl, even if that's technically not in continuity...yet. Also, just so you know, Babs actually did found the Birds of Prey in this continuity.

    So, again, this is in no way the New 52 continuity. The defining traits of the New 52 (the 5-year timeline, the lack of interconnection in the DCU, Superman and Lois not being together, the armored redesigns being their first ever looks, the refusal to acknowledge any continuity pre-2011, etc.) have largely been done away with.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-11-2019 at 06:43 AM.
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  5. #185
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    The ages tend to shift pre-52, but some stories had Dick becoming Robin as young as eight as illustrated here by Marv Wolfman and George Perez when he first gave up the Robin identity (12-23 seemed to be the standard for most Robins, though, at least up until Damien):

    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  6. #186
    Fantastic Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    But it wasn't reset. That was a result from the Convergence story originally, right? With all these different universes which immediately conflicted with Morrison's Multiversity story I think. The problem is that a lot of the current continuity is still based around the New 52 stories. We are still in the New 52 but things have been altered here and there but not to the extent where we have separated from the New 52. Things like the Titans franchise is still very much in the New 52, the Justice League franchise in a lot of parts, and especially the Batman franchise is still very much still based around the New 52. Things like Superman and Wonder Woman have changed drastically but it hasn't been the case for a lot of the DCU. It is why things are so confusing.
    Pretty much the entire 2011-2016 part of Teen Titans is out of continuity. If Lobdell wrote it then it didn't happen more or less. The 1960's-70's Titans series is back in continuity as is the Jurgens Titans run from 1996-98. Flashbacks from YJ indicate that the 2003-2011 Titans run happened.

    For the League: the Satellite era, Detroit League ,classic Giffen and Jm Dematteis JLI and Morrison's JLA are all back in continuity.

    Jason has his post crisis origin back. Tim has his original origin and his time as Robin reinstated. Barbara was Oracle.

    Pre-Flashpoint Lobo ,Psycho Pirate and Max Lord have supplanted their new 52 counterparts.

    It's not just Superman and Wonder Woman.
    BRING BACK CONNER KENT!!!

  7. #187
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    I'm loving to see you guys here telling each other what is officially canon and what is not as if DC made any of that clear or if they even care by now. Anyone who's been reading Wonder Woman comics know that they are letting writes consider whatever they want as canon even if that directly contradicts the run that came immediately before. Those who are saying Diana's New 52 has been erased clearly haven't read James Robinson run, nor the Teen Titans comic that re-established Donna's N52 origin for no reason.

    And no, Superman Reborn did not retcon the entire DC Universe. This may have been the logical thing to do, but no books out of Superman's have acknowledged it. Even the post-Superman Reborn comics of Supergirl still considered her Post-Flashpoint continuity as the canon one, only that she now knows her cousin has a family, etc. And Superman Reborn also showed there was no Conner in Reign of the Superman, so not even that event claimed everything Pre-Flashpoint to be canon. So yeah, DC Universe is pretty confusing right now and Young Justice #1 only added more questions.
    Last edited by DoctorWho; 01-12-2019 at 01:45 PM.

  8. #188
    Spectacular Member BAMF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorWho View Post
    I'm loving to see you guys here telling each other what is officially canon and what is not as if DC made any of that clear or if they even care by now. Anyone who's been reading Wonder Woman comics know that they are letting writes consider whatever they want as canon even if that directly contradicts the run that came immediately before. Those who are saying Diana's New 52 has been erased clearly haven't read James Robinson run, nor the Teen Titans comic that re-established Donna's N52 origin for no reason.

    And no, Superman Reborn did not retcon the entire DC Universe. This may have been the logical thing to do, but no books out of Superman's have acknowledged it. Even the post-Superman Reborn comics of Supergirl still considered her Post-Flashpoint continuity as the canon one, only that she now knows her cousin has a family, etc. And Superman Reborn also showed there was no Conner in Reign of the Superman, so not even that event claimed everything Pre-Flashpoint to be canon. So yeah, DC Universe is pretty confusing right now and Young Justice #1 only added more questions.
    Literally everything you mentioned in your post contradicts the bolded statement.

    Nobody is claiming the New 52 was erased. What we're saying is that the New 52 and Pre-Flashpoint continuities were merged to varying degrees. How can you claim Reborn didn't retcon anything besides Superman when that is the timestamp of when DC stopped caring about writers disregarding prior writers' work on their titles? The reason why it's not addressed in any other books is because of the explicit statement on that Reborn splash page -- everyone's memories were magically "fixed." Batman can't come to grips with the fact that he suddenly remembers Dad Superman if he's known Dad Superman all along.

    DC's ideology right now is exactly your point -- continuity doesn't matter because writers are picking/choosing between New 52 arcs and classic Pre-Flashpoint arcs for their characters, depending on what they like best...that was the impact of Reborn. Batman has been a huge success all through New 52, which is why there are barely any missing beats. New 52 Teen Titans was a flop, so everything about it is being swept under the rug. Wonder Woman is the most convoluted of all, as it seemed to veer away from the New 52 stories when Rucka took over, only to veer back after he left -- as you mentioned -- with Robinson. Now you have Wilson on the title, who is veering back towards the Rucka stuff. Yes, DC doesn't care about continuity. And we can all point to Reborn as one reason, if not thee reason, why. We'll see what Doomsday Clock does.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorWho View Post
    I'm loving to see you guys here telling each other what is officially canon and what is not as if DC made any of that clear or if they even care by now.
    We're not.

    DC continuity is admittedly very muddy right now until all of this is resolved. We are just discussing the facts that we do know presently.
    BRING BACK CONNER KENT!!!

  10. #190
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Dude, again, no. The scene from the page I posted is literally ripped out of the Judas Contract storyline. Its from the penultimate scene where Terra is freaking out in the H.I.V.E. headquarters and yelling at Slade for lying to her because she interprets his sparing Joey as being "soft." Again, they're wearing the same costumes and everything:



    To get to that scene, that means that literally the entire rest of the Judas Contract story happened.
    Before you posted a page from the current Deathstroke run where he literally mentions the Lazarus Contract. That never happened in the old continuity. It is a story that was written on the back of the New 52 Titans foundation and completely undermines the original Judas Contract story. It is a situation where the two can't coexist. I don't understand how you can try and say the old JC story happened when you posted a page that says it didn't. Them wearing their old costumes and in a similar setting are just visual homages but Deathstroke saying "Lazarus Contract" is the key part. The whole purpose of the LC story was to stop the JC story from happening and it did. Deathstroke never went after the Titans like he did in the original JC story. In the Rebirth Deathstroke/Titans crossover that Priest wrote it was revealed that Dick and Deathstroke made a deal to stop it and that is what happened between Deathstroke and Dick's Titans in the "New 52" era Titans instead of the JC story in the old continuity.

    And that is my whole point. The LC story is what this "New 52" Titans team went through and that is what is still being built on in current stories. You have to completely retcon the LC Rebirth story for the old JC story to have happened. Then this leads to a lot of other things. Rose isn't missing an eye so the whole story about Deathstroke hiding a piece of kryptonite in her eye didn't happen, Terra didn't die so she never came back from the dead in the Blackest Night GL story, Donna is still being written as being a Amazon weapon which is based on the Finch's New 52 story, the Wally we had isn't the pre-Flashpoint Wally West and is just the New 52 one that got erased by Abra Kadabra but gained memories of the pre-Flashpoint Wally while he was erased, and there are tons of other examples. All this is based on the New 52 time before Rebirth. If you don't want to call it the New 52 then call it The DC YOU era continuity that was right before Rebirth, but in a lot of these cases versions of these pre-Flashpoint stories happened but like the Lazarus Contract example they are New 52/DC YOU versions of them that are different than the original stories. Which is why things are so confusing.
    Last edited by Badou; 01-13-2019 at 06:40 AM.

  11. #191
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    We're not.

    DC continuity is admittedly very muddy right now until all of this is resolved. We are just discussing the facts that we do know presently.
    Not really since you have already faltered on the facts. Tim for instance did not have his time as Robin put back rather DC added more mud by deaging him, cutting down his time with the bats saying he doesn't know Conner then he knows him. For quite a few characters we don't know what the score is. Tim's folks died during his Robin run. That's part of his time as Robin. In Rebirth his folks are alive. See where I'm going.

    Fact
    Tim had a modified version of his origin back that's it.
    Jason you are correct on
    Dick and the Titans still have patchy spots.

    You might be right that they are hoping to compress Tim's lengthy run into 1 year serving with Batman [Accounting for when Bruce was gone, bruce that lot his memories and two other Robins Damian and Duke] this is comics after all.

    Or his time as Robin might just be starting with YJ giving him a clean slate.
    Last edited by dietrich; 01-13-2019 at 07:09 AM.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Not really since you have already faltered on the facts. Tim for instance did not have his time as Robin put back rather DC added more mud by deaging him, cutting down his time with the bats saying he doesn't know Conner then he knows him. For quite a few characters we don't know what the score is. Tim's folks died during his Robin run. That's part of his time as Robin. In Rebirth his folks are alive. See where I'm going.

    Fact
    Tim had a modified version of his origin back that's it.
    Jason you are correct on
    Dick and the Titans still have patchy spots.

    You might be right that they are hoping to compress Tim's lengthy run into 1 year serving with Batman [Accounting for when Bruce was gone, bruce that lot his memories and two other Robins Damian and Duke] this is comics after all.

    Or his time as Robin might just be starting with YJ giving him a clean slate.
    Tim's time as Robin was reinstated when his original "Lonely place of dying" origin was bought back.

    Modified version of his origin? They literally used panels from the original story.

    In "rebirth" his folks are alive? I don't remember them being mentioned since the new52.
    Last edited by Midnighter; 01-13-2019 at 07:47 AM.
    BRING BACK CONNER KENT!!!

  13. #193
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    From Christopher Priest's blog:http://lamerciepark.com/wp/?p=579

    Second, it was unique in that, well, I’m new here (at DC). I really wasn’t as aware of the intricacies of the minefield that is DC Universe continuity. My pitch for this (I’ve been pushing for it for nearly a year) was to revisit “The Judas Contract,” Marv Wolfman and George Perez’s defining story arc of the New Teen Titans. We were going to J.J. Abrams the thing in order to build a firewall around the original story–so it can never be retconned or ignored–while re-telling it with the post-Rebirth continuity.

    But the old continuity was just a mess. Cyborg was never a Titan. Starfire, Raven– it was terribly difficult to sort all of that out. My preference was to not bother; just show blocks of the original story with the original cast without explaining why Cyborg is now a founding member of the Justice League and never a Titan.

    As I see it, both DC and Marvel (but especially DC) wastes way too much time on process stories. I’m tired of reading process stories– stories that explain why this character is now wearing a red hat instead of a yellow one. Who cares. Entertain me.

    Comics fans aren’t idiots and, sadly, they aren’t kids anymore. Rather than go through the whole Rebirth thing, and what seems to be endless process stories being written ever since, I’d simply have had Batman turn to camera, breaking the fourth wall, and be honest with the DC comics fan: “We fucked up.” Now, on with our show.

    Comics should be Good Stories Well Told. That’s it. Personally, am not entertained by all of these comics that invest multi-issue story arcs explaining the red hat/yellow hat thing. I don’t care. I’m 56 years old, I understand things have changed.

    Somewhere along the way we’ve stopped entertaining and gotten morosely engaged with this continuity stuff. Continuity exists to serve the stories, not the other way around.

    Ultimately, because of the varying events both past and upcoming, it proved impossible to do the JJ thing, so editor Antone came up with the next best thing. “Lazarus…” walks right up to the Judas Contract and knocks on the door, but we don’t fully go there because, honestly, we couldn’t. Yet. Stay tuned.

    What we do have, however, is a fun and entertaining romp which re-establishes the broken link (why’d they break it?) between Deathstroke and the Titans. Now that’s a good thing and well worth reading.
    When Lazarus Contract did show flashbacks to Ravager fighting the Teen Titans, it was the New 52 "Titans Hunt" versions - with Speedy, Aqualad and Lilith there.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Before you posted a page from the current Deathstroke run where he literally mentions the Lazarus Contract. That never happened in the old continuity. It is a story that was written on the back of the New 52 Titans foundation and completely undermines the original Judas Contract story. It is a situation where the two can't coexist. I don't understand how you can try and say the old JC story happened when you posted a page that says it didn't. Them wearing their old costumes and in a similar setting are just visual homages but Deathstroke saying "Lazarus Contract" is the key part. The whole purpose of the LC story was to stop the JC story from happening and it did. Deathstroke never went after the Titans like he did in the original JC story. In the Rebirth Deathstroke/Titans crossover that Priest wrote it was revealed that Dick and Deathstroke made a deal to stop it and that is what happened between Deathstroke and Dick's Titans in the "New 52" era Titans instead of the JC story in the old continuity.
    The page I posted actually is proof that it happened. Because in order to even get to that part, the entire rest of the Judas Contract story has to take place and, literally in the page right before that, they're talking about Terra infiltrating the Titans and gaining their trust. Notice how in the page I posted, Slade says "stick to the plan" (i.e. the plan of betraying the Titans to the H.I.V.E.) and then it says "months later" and immediately cuts to that scene? It means that Terra did put that plan into motion in the intervening time. For them to get to that place where Terra is attacking Slade, they still have to have (a) Terra betraying and attacking the rest of the team, (b) them being transported to the H.I.V.E. headquarters, (c) Adeline and Dick going to rescue of the team, (d) Slade choosing not to kill Joey, etc. The end is retconned to make it so Terra lived, yeah, but the entire rest of the story took place. And, yes, that is admittedly very hard to imagine, but that is what is implied. DC's continuity is currently very muddy and it may be hard to imagine JC happening to the current Titans, but Priest directly references the events of Judas Contract. That is why almost everyone who has read it says that LC brings JC back into continuity. That is the reading that everyone has taken away from it.

    And, nobody said that New 52 elements had been completely erased BUT we've had too many things revert back to their Pre-Flashpoint status quo to say that we are still in the New 52 continuity. That's all we're saying.

    The New 52 Superman has been completely replaced and erased from continuity. None of the Wonder Woman New 52 stuff is in continuity anymore. The Superman/Wonder Woman romance has been removed. Lagoon Boy directly referenced events of Geoff Johns's Teen Titans run in Heroes in Crisis. Heroes in Crisis also confirms that the old JLI and JLE are back in continuity since (1) Blue Jay references the death of Silver Sorceress at the hands of Dreamslayer and (2) Blue Beetle and Booster are talking about their famous partnership, "Blue and Gold." Tim Drake has gotten his Pre-Flashpoint origin and time as Robin back. Jason Todd got his Post-Crisis origin back. Final Crisis had to have taken place as well, since Dark Knights: Metal directly references it. Deathstroke himself has gotten his original origin back as wanting revenge for his dead son, as opposed to actually having killed that son himself. This Terra is not the Terra that debuted in the New 52 Ravagers series. And even this issue of Young Justice that came out both confirms that (a) Conner Kent has been reinserted back into continuity and (b) Peter David's original Young Justice run is back in continuity.

    Plus, a lot of what you point to as proof isn't all that definitive. Comic book characters rarely maintain the physical scars of the events that happen to them, so who's to say Rose didn't undergo an experimental procedure to replace her eye the same way that Babs did to recover from being paralyzed for years? Same thing goes for death, so who's to say that Terra didn't die at some point and come back as a Black Lantern (since we know that Blackest Night happened) and then was simply revived?

    All if this adds up to DC continuity being extremely messy, yes, but its also leads to the conclusion that it is NOT the New 52 continuity. The New 52 was predicated on completely divorcing itself from the old continuity, where nothing from Pre-Flashpoint, with the exception of some Batman and Green Lantern events, happened. That has obviously been reversed and, therefore, we cannot say that this continuity is still the New 52 continuity.

    And that is going to be my last word on the issue.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-13-2019 at 11:50 AM.
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  15. #195
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    Great first issue and I read it to some kids of a friend and they were all on board and had lots of fun questions about the characters.

    I don't need explanations for any DCnU continuity inconsistencies or gaffes as it seems Bendis jettisoning those unfortunate and/or stinky characterizations in passing comments by the characters in favor more classical interpretations of the characters.

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