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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Keep her an Amazon but her skin color could be anything. Does she have Diana's heart or personality? If the answer is yes then she is wonder woman and her color doesn't matter.

  2. #32
    Mighty Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    Yes, I would care if they stopped making her an Amazon.
    That viewpoint I can understand, but should the Amazons have the uniform appearance of white Americans?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    Yes, I would care if they stopped making her an Amazon.
    Why would making her non white mean she's no longer an Amazon.

  4. #34

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    I’m a big fan of Cassie, I think making her mixed race would help distinguish her character, in some pictures it’s hard to tell if it’s cassie Kara or Steph.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    That viewpoint I can understand, but should the Amazons have the uniform appearance of white Americans?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Why would making her non white mean she's no longer an Amazon.
    It was a dumb joke saying that her race (species) is Amazon, like Human, Giant, God or Elf
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

  6. #36
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    That viewpoint I can understand, but should the Amazons have the uniform appearance of white Americans?
    When have they ever?

    I'm serious. One thing that's REALLY annoying is when people use "white" to include multiple ethnic groups that share nothing but light colored skin and varying shades of that.

    One of the stupidest objections I saw to casting Gal Gadot was that they should cast someone who isn't white.... she's Jewish, IE Middle Eastern, not European. Greeks actually have similar facial features to Caucasians, but darker skin, and the color of their skin is closer to Middle Eastern people.

  7. #37
    Mighty Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    When have they ever?

    I'm serious. One thing that's REALLY annoying is when people use "white" to include multiple ethnic groups that share nothing but light colored skin and varying shades of that.
    Every race label includes lots of ethnic groups. "White" is about as vague as "black" here. That's also why I noted "white American", meaning not only white and American, but given white privilege in the USA.

    As for depictions of Wonder Woman and the Amazons as white (however one chooses to define it), check how they appear in Marston's run. Or Pérez.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Every race label includes lots of ethnic groups. "White" is about as vague as "black" here. That's also why I noted "white American", meaning not only white and American, but given white privilege in the USA.

    As for depictions of Wonder Woman and the Amazons as white (however one chooses to define it), check how they appear in Marston's run. Or Pérez.
    Explain in your words why you think that is important. You tossed out "white privilege" despite the conversation up to this point not even mentioning it. Why do you think that's relevant in-universe?

  9. #39
    Mighty Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Explain in your words why you think that is important. You tossed out "white privilege" despite the conversation up to this point not even mentioning it. Why do you think that's relevant in-universe?
    Because "white" is not really a certain specific look or ethnicity. What is considered "white" varies with the society you're in.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I imagine a retroactive series chronicling a Black Wonder Woman falling in love with a white American World War II war pilot/agent/hero and leaving paradise to fight crime, injustice, prejudice, inequity, sexism, and Nazis in 1941 in the United States would give us a very different set of stories (if we’re being honest and knowing what we know now [and honestly knew then.])

    It would be powerful storytelling and quite infuriating, given America’s past (and current) issues and bigotry with racial and ethnic inequality and inequity.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I imagine a retroactive series chronicling a Black Wonder Woman falling in love with a white American World War II war pilot/agent/hero and leaving paradise to fight crime, injustice, prejudice, inequity, sexism, and Nazis in 1941 in the United States would give us a very different set of stories (if we’re being honest and knowing what we know now [and honestly knew then.])

    It would be powerful storytelling and quite infuriating, given America’s past (and current) issues and bigotry with racial and ethnic inequality and inequity.
    Given the character concept and history you could do that without changing how the character looks. Might actually be more interesting since the "black" approach tends to lend itself to writing pale pastiches.

  12. #42
    Mighty Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Given the character concept and history you could do that without changing how the character looks. Might actually be more interesting since the "black" approach tends to lend itself to writing pale pastiches.
    Agreed. I think that if you race-bend Diana, then you should do so in a story set in current time. Otherwise you neuter any message that you intend to bring.

    In a way, I hold that the reason the movie was able to successfully portray Diana as radical when it comes to issues of class, gender, and racism, was because it was set in the past. Diana's criticisms of our society thus becomes safe, because we can raise those same critiques while disregarding that exactly the same structures lives on still, and Diana would be just as critical of them today. That's a huge part I'm curious about when it comes to WW84, because that time is still within living memory and the world much closer to ours. Any critique of the inequalities and oppression of that time strikes much closer to home for today.

  13. #43
    Fantastic Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Its not related to the topic, but I thought Earth Ones Cassandra was quite cute.

  14. #44
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Mmm... you have to be very careful to not make it inaccurate while still being fictional. But there's a lot of variation in what counts as accurate and opinions vary as to what it should be shown as. Also it needs to make sense from an in-universe perspective. People IRL often have bad reasons for acting like jerks, but they have reasons. It's part of what I was saying about "pale pastiches", often stories will be written with the racists being total black hats who have no actual reason for what they do.

    One example I did in a story one was having someone who hated WW and often disparaged her for being Greek. Thing is, she didn't hate WW because WW was Greek, that was simply an easy way for her to express how much she didn't like WW.

    Ra's al Ghul got WW to steal a sarcophagus, but the sarcophagus contained the mummified body of Nitiri's friend, and Nitiri had made a vow 3 thousand years ago to protect Atum-zat "for all eternity". Ra's actually had a rather simple reason for it. He wanted to see what would happen if you tossed a mummy into a Lazarus pit, and wanted one that was still intact.

    THAT was what Nitiri had against WW, Nitiri mocking WW for being Greek was just a way of insulting her at random.

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