Cary Nord's art

[kjn]

We've had some discussion here on how Wonder Woman has been depicted so far in G Willow Wilson's run, with some claiming that Wonder Woman wasn't depicted as strong or as powerful as in earlier runs. That led us to discuss the actual feats that Diana has done, and how they have been depicted in art, and that led to the idea that there is an incongruence between art and writing.

ETA: If the images appear small, click on them for larger version.

So lets explore that. From issue 58:

Wonder Woman (2016-) 058-020.jpg

This is where Wonder Woman runs to confront the leader of the insurgents. The image carries the dynamics of movement, and Diana has an expression of determination and fierceness on her face. However, she is posed in a very unbalanced way, bent over with her butt sticking out and an arched back. The determined expression is also undercut by the rather waifish way that Diana is drawn: the determination feels more momentary than something implacable to me.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 058-021.jpg

Diana reaches Ares, and is greeted by an axe. Despite carrying a shield, Diana throws it far to the side in the first image, and all signs of determination are gone. She is on her knees, and have thus lost all mobility. Her facial expression is surprised, all determination and fierceness is gone.

In the following frame Diana looks small and afraid.

A note on the "Hunh". While going through the issues for this article I found quite a lot of these and similar sounds. I'm not sure this is a Wilsonism (I didn't find any on a quick check of my wife's Ms Marvel TPB), but they come not only from Diana but from Ares as well, as well as when Steve Trevor succumbs to his wound. I do believe they detract from the narrative used as liberally as they are here.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 058-022.jpg

From the final page of issue 58. Notice the posings here. Ares is maybe not shown as confident, but he stands straight, holding his shield. He is neither threatening Diana nor visibly ready to defend against an attack. ETA: If anything, I'd say Ares appears proud.

Diana, on the other hand, looks up in surprise. Her posing makes her smaller than she really is, and she does not present any confidence. Again, she appears more childish than anything else.

[starlight25]

We've had some discussion here on how Wonder Woman has been depicted so far in G Willow Wilson's run, with some claiming that Wonder Woman wasn't depicted as strong or as powerful as in earlier runs. That led us to discuss the actual feats that Diana has done, and how they have been depicted in art, and that led to the idea that there is an incongruence between art and writing.

So lets explore that. From issue 58:

Wonder Woman (2016-) 058-020.jpg

This is where Wonder Woman runs to confront the leader of the insurgents. The image carries the dynamics of movement, and Diana has an expression of determination and fierceness on her face. However, she is posed in a very unbalanced way, bent over with her butt sticking out and an arched back. The determined expression is also undercut by the rather waifish way that Diana is drawn: the determination feels more momentary than something implacable to me.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 058-021.jpg

Diana reaches Ares, and is greeted by an axe. Despite carrying a shield, Diana throws it far to the side in the first image, and all signs of determination are gone. She is on her knees, and have thus lost all mobility. Her facial expression is surprised, all determination and fierceness is gone.

In the following frame Diana looks small and afraid.

A note on the "Hunh". While going through the issues for this article I found quite a lot of these and similar sounds. I'm not sure this is a Wilsonism (I didn't find any on a quick check of my wife's Ms Marvel TPB), but they come not only from Diana but from Ares as well, as well as when Steve Trevor succumbs to his wound. I do believe they detract from the narrative used as liberally as they are here.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 058-022.jpg

From the final page of issue 58. Notice the posings here. Ares is maybe not shown as confident, but he stands straight, holding his shield. He is neither threatening Diana nor visibly ready to defend against an attack.

Diana, on the other hand, looks up in surprise. Her posing makes her smaller than she really is, and she does not present any confidence. Again, she appears more childish than anything else.

She needed help to redirect a missile. Struggled lifting a plane. Found it hard to save 2 kids from the battlefield, and was wondering if she'd make it in one piece.


I'm just tired of the concept that in order for WW to be "interesting" or have "quality" stories. Everything must be a challenge to her. We have enough evidence in 77 years of stories to debunk that theory. I will give gww some more time before judging her overall run. I'm just expressing my opinion that so far, her run is not good enough to me. Both, the writing and of course Diana's unimpressive power.

I don't want to sound annoying. But since N52, where they turned her into a caricature of what some men think a strong woman should be written like, most things in the Wonder verse have been disappointing. A generic hercules origin, rapists amazon(gone now thank God), superhuman xena who loves to stab villains and friends. A downgrade in power, twin brother getting more powers than her, etc. It's like DC has done everything they can to make Wonder Woman look well, not very wonderful. And so far, gww is not helping to change that either.

[kjn]

She needed help to redirect a missile. Struggled lifting a plane. Found it hard to save 2 kids from the battlefield, and was wondering if she'd make it in one piece.

Please, you are derailing the thread before it even has started.

Some pictures from issue 59 with my comments.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 059-008.jpg

Here we have Ares and Diana stopping a ballistic missile. Again, there is quite a bit of dynamics in the picture but I think it's mainly due to the inking and colouring rather than from Nord's pencils: Diana appears to be still compared to the missile. I'm not really sure how to interpret her facial expression.

Note the return of the grunt, that I discussed in my first post.

Ares's face is of course hidden by his helmet, but I do find his posture rather strange. Nord's arm placements and angles often look uncomfortable to me, and this is another example. Diana is probably the most frequent victim, but not the only one.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 059-011.jpg

Ares has thrown the missile into a village of civilians, and is attacked by Wonder Woman. Diana's face expresses anger, but it is still looks fleeting and momentary, and it looks like it rather controls Diana rather than Diana controlling her anger. Note also her body posture, with her breasts prominent, her left hip jutting out to the side (partly hidden by Ares's helmet), and a leg as wide as her waist. She evokes a bit of power, but appears more tense than anything.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 059-013.jpg

The image that started this research, with the observation from SiegePerilous02. In the previous frame Diana had disarmed and caught Ares with her lasso. Here she implies that Ares is still tied by the lasso, but it hangs inert by her hip. For once, Diana appears in a pose of power, but I still think it shows the wrong emotion. Instead of expressing certainty on her relation to Ares and what can happen to him, she is too threatening and aggressive.

[starlight25]

Please, you are derailing the thread before it even has started.

Some pictures from issue 59 with my comments.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 059-008.jpg

Here we have Ares and Diana stopping a ballistic missile. Again, there is quite a bit of dynamics in the picture but I think it's mainly due to the inking and colouring rather than from Nord's pencils: Diana appears to be still compared to the missile. I'm not really sure how to interpret her facial expression.

Note the return of the grunt, that I discussed in my first post.

Ares's face is of course hidden by his helmet, but I do find his posture rather strange. Nord's arm placements and angles often look uncomfortable to me, and this is another example. Diana is probably the most frequent victim, but not the only one.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 059-011.jpg

Ares has thrown the missile into a village of civilians, and is attacked by Wonder Woman. Diana's face expresses anger, but it is still looks fleeting and momentary, and it looks like it rather controls Diana rather than Diana controlling her anger. Note also her body posture, with her breasts prominent, her left hip jutting out to the side (partly hidden by Ares's helmet), and a leg as wide as her spine. She evokes a bit of power, but appears more tense than anything.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 059-013.jpg

The image that started this research, with the observation from SiegePerilous02. In the previous frame Diana had disarmed and caught Ares with her lasso. Here she implies that Ares is still tied by the lasso, but it hangs inert by her hip. For once, Diana appears in a pose of power, but I still think it shows the wrong emotion. Instead of expressing certainty on her relation to Ares and what can happen to him, she is too threatening and aggressive.

Didn't you make this thread because the discussion that WW is portrayed as weak in th current run? How am i derailing? She looks like it takes an effort for her in many of the scans posted here.

[kjn]

Didn't you make this thread because the discussion that WW is portrayed as weak in th current run? How am i derailing? She looks like it takes an effort for her in many of the scans posted here.

You are derailing because I wanted to explore the nuances and expressions that Nord's art conveys, and how it ties into and interacts with Wilson's narrative in greater depth. In other word: discuss if his art is a poor fit for Wonder Woman, and if so, how and why it is a poor fit. Meanwhile you are just asserting the same points that you have made in other threads, that have nothing to do with art, and didn't engage with a single one of the observations I made.

On to issue 60:

Wonder Woman (2016-) 060-004.jpg

In the first frame, Diana expresses fear. In the second we get determination. In the third we get, what? Breaking Ares's axe into pieces ought to show more than a bit of power and effort, but Diana's face sure does not express that. Note also again how Diana's back is arched and how her breasts are jutting out, further diminishing any sense of power from the posture.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 060-012.jpg

I include this as a counterpoint to the third image in my first post, from the final page of issue #58. While Diana's posture is better in this image, it is still Etta's body language that dominates, and is the more bold and assertive.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 060-013.jpg

There is so much strange going on in this picture I hardly know where to start. Etta's scarf is positioned in such a way, and is shown at such an angle, that I first thought it was Etta's mouth (like if she had been jokerised). Then we have the distance and angle between Diana's legs. Again, she is bending over. Her giant breasts make her look far too front- and top-heavy, and it contrasts badly with her otherwise waifish form in body and face. Again Diana looks surprised and afraid, and not knowing what to do.

[Dr. Poison]

I don't care for Nord's art so far. Diana looks way too skinny and frail. His art is also too cartoony and inconsistent IMO. How did we go from stellar artists like Nicola Scott and Liam Sharp to this? Batman and Superman usually get A or B list artist 95% of the time but Diana seems to get newbies or leftovers a lot of times.

[Avi]

You are derailing because I wanted to explore the nuances and expressions that Nord's art conveys, and how it ties into and interacts with Wilson's narrative in greater depth. In other word: discuss if his art is a poor fit for Wonder Woman, and if so, how and why it is a poor fit. Meanwhile you are just asserting the same points that you have made in other threads, that have nothing to do with art, and didn't engage with a single one of the observations I made.

On to issue 60:

Wonder Woman (2016-) 060-004.jpg

In the first frame, Diana expresses fear. In the second we get determination. In the third we get, what? Breaking Ares's axe into pieces ought to show more than a bit of power and effort, but Diana's face sure does not express that. Note also again how Diana's back is arched and how her breasts are jutting out, further diminishing any sense of power from the posture.

Honestly? I would not have noticed Diana actually breaking the axe if not for your commentary. The pose looks more as if she is trying not to break her back. And to me it seemed as if she were floating above the ground for a moment. Don't know if it's because of the shadows or just because of me.

[Gaelforce]

Didn't you make this thread because the discussion that WW is portrayed as weak in th current run? How am i derailing? She looks like it takes an effort for her in many of the scans posted here.

This thread is about how the artwork depicts Diana.

Please don't derail it into a storyline and characterization debate as that's well covered in the main thread about the issue.

[kjn]

Here are some comparisons from issue 61, and how Xermanico draws Diana's poses and expressions in some similar situations as above.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 061-009.jpg

Notice how Diana runs. She is upright and in balance, ready to counter any threat with the shield held high. Her facial expression gives off a slight worry, but it seems to be mainly directed at the children accompanying her, and she shouts to reassure and encourage them.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 061-016.jpg

Diana offers to help the prime minister to a site for peace (or at least ceasefire) talks. Note how she and Steve have near-identical positions and expressions, with Diana in the foreground. She stands tall, with a determined and assertive look, and the angle from slightly below makes her appear larger than life. Aphrodite's stance and expression is just as confident, but where Diana is serious, Aphrodite is more amused.

Wonder Woman (2016-) 061-019.jpg

Diana has just caught a missile with her lasso and thrown it somewhere. Here I want to compare it with the first image from issue 58, which also has her butt jutting out and an arched back. However, the angle is such that we don't get to see straight up her cleavage. Instead we get her entire behind shaded in black under the moving pieces of her armoured skirt. However, those and the angle of her arms and legs give a strong sense of dynamic movement that flows together with her temporarily unbalanced figure.