Would you care if Superman was portrayed by a person of color?

[DochaDocha]

The cases vary.

Kyo is Japanese by name, and the fact that the Kusanagi bloodline explicitly dominates his story makes for an exceptional case where you cannot cast someone else without a major problem. But Goku isn't Japanese. Maybe he should be Chinese instead anyway, but he's not Asian. His planet doesn't have an Asia, it has blue hair and talking dogs. Hey I'd probably cast a Brazilian guy with good capoeira.

Superman isn't actually white, but he was adopted by two white people who passed him off as a son. You could make his parents black, but then you're clearly getting away from the idea that casting a black lead was about something other than a race swap. After eight films I don't think the proper response should resemble a gamble for its own sake. I think the opportunity is better spent actually trying someone new like Calvin Ellis or Hernan. Or Kenan, who was actually the star of a very good comic series that could likely kill in an adaptation.

But you know, I kind of hate using terms like gamble. It bugs me how bugged people get. "You can't be Superman, you're black!" That's really what I feel like I'm being told. I mean he's a work of fiction, chill out.

And Eddie Murphy would have been a good late 80s Superman anyway, fight me lol

Here's why I don't like the "Goku isn't really Asian" argument to the awful casting of Justin Chatwin (no offense, dude, but you're no Goku)

1) Goku is in many ways Japanese Superman. Just like Superman isn't really Caucasian, because he's Kryptonian and such, he was written for what was largely a predominantly white, American audience. He was supposed to look like his readers. Then it became he was supposed to look like a country boy from rural Kansas (84% white in 2010, even more so back in WWII era). Similarly, Goku to some sense was supposed to look like his readers/viewers (originally Asian kids). Both characters were drawn that way for decades. But if that's not good enough of a reason for me to be annoyed...

2) So the DB: Evolution team tries to acknowledge its inherent Asian-ness by casting an Asian Chichi, an Asian Yamcha, an Asian Master Roshi, an Asian Grandpa, but... stupid Hollywood people said no, we will not cast an Asian Goku. Seriously, it almost makes the casting even worse than just casting white everybody, at least in the sense that it says yes, we can have peripheral or supporting Asian actors and characters in the movie, but hero has to be a white boy. Ditto my KoF example: Grandpa can be Asian, Chizuru can be Asian, Mai can be Asian (that was a bad casting job, BTW ), Iori Yagami can be Asian (also ridiculous casting as dude was pushing 40...), but they would not allow the main character to be played by anything but a white guy even though his grandpa is Japanese and his name is Kyo effin' Kusanagi. It screams "your people are not good enough, even to play your people, in a role of consequence." I guess they didn't yellowface, if you need to find a positive out of this...

[Kon93]

2 points

Superman IS white,just white from another planet.why are ppl acting like another planet wouldn't have different races and actually have them categorized like we do.on krypton he is a white guy,no he is not a earth white guy,but he is still a white guy.

Jason mamoa works because Arthur is mixed by birth.

And because Jason was on Baywatch,so he gets a pass lol.

[Superlad93]

Fundamentally, for myself, no I wouldn't care. I'd want to see the actor best and most compelling for the role. That's me in my purest state of mind on the subject--unmarred by the actual world I live in. However, this idea can not be exorcised from the inherently gross nature of Hollywood and pop culture when it comes to stuff like this, because the reality is race is used as an fashionable set of clothes in pop culture and waaay more so when it comes to Hollywood. That sort of casting is for getting people brownie points (and the o-so sought after "we're not racist, see" points) is far more important to them than what would potentially a genuine stride forward, and it usually does more to negate said aforementioned stride when it's done really poorly......like say, oh I dunno, when a character has a hard time sticking on screen because they're thought of as boring (or white bread, if you like), inaccessible, or too powerful.

I'm sorry, but I tend to have this gross feeling when I can pretty overly see that my skin tone (I'm black btw) is being commodified to make a struggling or problematic character more sympathetic or less "whitebread" for the general public. I can and have to roll with that sometimes because that's just the reality I live in, and maybe the product is good in spite of the creepy reasons behind this choice. But other times I just can't do it, man. Like, if they did it with Superman right now it would be 100000000000% (I only stopped making zeros because you get my point) to win brownie points because their last attempts with the character have been run out of the room. The idea of an all powerful white dude making decisions for the whole planet is maybe in the worst light humanly possible right now. But in stead of acknowledging the inherent topical nature and actively presenting "no, it doesn't have to be like this, and not all people that look like this are like that idiot and his like over there" alternative, it's much easier for the Hollywood studio to slap on a person of color, slink into the crowd, and chant "yeah, we were with you the whole time. That guy sucks." Y'all not slick.

This whole "what's in fashion" skin color edition can go f#*k itself. It's the literal plot of the movie Get Out. Old white people parading around in the bodies of people of color based on what's "in" or "cool" at the time. A better metaphor for what changing Superman's race right now would mean doesn't exist, I promise you. Get Out was one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in my life. I damn near had an existential crisis on the drive home thinking about this in terms of my life and the media I consume.

I have no right answer for if it's good in the long run or not, but I just know if we're this specific instance and this specific time, it sort of creeps me right the hell out.

[Superlad93]

why are ppl acting like another planet wouldn't have different races and actually have them categorized like we do.

Probably because most people like to assume that this sort of troubled, fundamentally incorrect (like, scientifically this is like separating cows by spots), and myopic thinking is just a relatively unenlightened Earth thing and the rest of the universe isn't as ridiculous when it comes to this. Just think, whole wars and human atrocities based built off the back of separating cows.....by spots.

[Kon93]

Fundamentally, for myself, no I wouldn't care. I'd want to see the actor best and most compelling for the role. That's me in my purest state of mind on the subject--unmarred by the actual world I live in. However, this idea can not be exorcised from the inherently gross nature of Hollywood and pop culture when it comes to stuff like this, because the reality is race is used as an fashionable set of clothes in pop culture and waaay more so when it comes to Hollywood. That sort of casting is for getting people brownie points (and the o-so sought after "we're not racist, see" points) is far more important to them than what would potentially a genuine stride forward, and it usually does more to negate said aforementioned stride when it's done really poorly......like say, oh I dunno, when a character has a hard time sticking on screen because they're thought of as boring (or white bread, if you like), inaccessible, or too powerful.

I'm sorry, but I tend to have this gross feeling when I can pretty overly see that my skin tone (I'm black btw) is being commodified to make a struggling or problematic character more sympathetic or less "whitebread" for the general public. I can and have to roll with that sometimes because that's just the reality I live in, and maybe the product is good in spite of the creepy reasons behind this choice. But other times I just can't do it, man. Like, if they did it with Superman right now it would be 100000000000% (I only stopped making zeros because you get my point) to win brownie points because their last attempts with the character have been run out of the room. The idea of an all powerful white dude making decisions for the whole planet is maybe in the worst light humanly possible right now. But in stead of acknowledging the inherent topical nature and actively presenting "no, it doesn't have to be like this, and not all people that look like this are like that idiot and his like over there" alternative, it's much easier for the Hollywood studio to slap on a person of color, slink into the crowd, and chant "yeah, we were with you the whole time. That guy sucks." Y'all not slick.

This whole "what's in fashion" skin color edition can go f#*k itself. It's the literal plot of the movie Get Out. Old white people parading around in the bodies of people of color based on what's "in" or "cool" at the time. A better metaphor for what changing Superman's race right now would mean doesn't exist, I promise you. Get Out was one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in my life. I damn near had an existential crisis on the drive home thinking about this in terms of my life and the media I consume.

I have no right answer for if it's good in the long run or not, but I just know if we're this specific instance and this specific time, it sort of creeps me right the hell out.

I seriously thought Get Out was a spoof comedy of bad B horror movies until someone told me it was supposed to be the real deal.i still think it was the best comedy of that year,just listen to that music lol.

Btw agree with everything you said about the present situation.

Probably because most people like to assume that this sort of troubled, fundamentally incorrect (like, scientifically this is like separating cows by spots), and myopic thinking is just a relatively unenlightened Earth thing and the rest of the universe isn't as ridiculous when it comes to this. Just think, whole wars and human atrocities based built off the back of separating cows.....by spots.

Well were not,and ppl Male sure we will never forget it everyday,they cant help theirself.

[Celgress]

Long as the stories are good and the characterization is spot on, I couldn't care less what ethnicity/race Superman is.

With that said, I would prefer DC does more with Val (see Miles Morales at Marvel) before they change Clark's race. I feel Val is a criminally underused character who has tons of potential.

[Superlad93]

Btw agree with everything you said about the present situation.

I read your post from a page back, and, with respect, I don't think we share the same views on this even though they conclude similarly on some surface level. Again, with respect to you, I just wanted that out there and clear.

[Vordan]

No but Superman isn’t like Spider-Man where the race of Peter plays a very little role in his life. Clark being black or Hispanic and growing up in Smallville would immediately make things different from “regular” Clark. He’d have a harder time fitting in. Unless the Kents change races too Clark would know right away he’s adopted and might favor his alien heritage more. There’s also stuff like racism or prejudice to consider. If Clark grew up being taunted for how he looks I can’t imagine him being the Johns wide eyed idealist or the Byrne yuppie. I also can’t imagine him idealizing Smallville like Clark normally does. He’d be more cynical, more like the New 52 Superman (which isn’t a bad thing at all considering Morrison’s origin is my favorite). I can’t see a black or latino Supes championing “The American Way” or even being a big believer in American “justice” or “truth”.

TL;DR I wouldn’t mind it but I don’t believe swapping Supes race would have a negligible effect on his personality or outlook on life. If someone were to do it, the character of Supes would change. I do think it would be interesting Elseworld story though.

[Darkspellmaster]

Long as the stories are good and the characterization is spot on, I couldn't care less what ethnicity/race Superman is.

With that said, I would prefer DC does more with Val (see Miles Morales at Marvel) before they change Clark's race. I feel Val is a criminally underused character who has tons of potential.

Echoing this. As long as the writers keep true to who Clark is I'm AOkay with whatever race you want to put him as. Its who he is internally that makes him super.

Also agreed that Val should go first before Clark. No reason you can't have two super men around.

[Robanker]

Fundamentally, for myself, no I wouldn't care. I'd want to see the actor best and most compelling for the role. That's me in my purest state of mind on the subject--unmarred by the actual world I live in. However, this idea can not be exorcised from the inherently gross nature of Hollywood and pop culture when it comes to stuff like this, because the reality is race is used as an fashionable set of clothes in pop culture and waaay more so when it comes to Hollywood. That sort of casting is for getting people brownie points (and the o-so sought after "we're not racist, see" points) is far more important to them than what would potentially a genuine stride forward, and it usually does more to negate said aforementioned stride when it's done really poorly......like say, oh I dunno, when a character has a hard time sticking on screen because they're thought of as boring (or white bread, if you like), inaccessible, or too powerful.

I'm sorry, but I tend to have this gross feeling when I can pretty overly see that my skin tone (I'm black btw) is being commodified to make a struggling or problematic character more sympathetic or less "whitebread" for the general public. I can and have to roll with that sometimes because that's just the reality I live in, and maybe the product is good in spite of the creepy reasons behind this choice. But other times I just can't do it, man. Like, if they did it with Superman right now it would be 100000000000% (I only stopped making zeros because you get my point) to win brownie points because their last attempts with the character have been run out of the room. The idea of an all powerful white dude making decisions for the whole planet is maybe in the worst light humanly possible right now. But in stead of acknowledging the inherent topical nature and actively presenting "no, it doesn't have to be like this, and not all people that look like this are like that idiot and his like over there" alternative, it's much easier for the Hollywood studio to slap on a person of color, slink into the crowd, and chant "yeah, we were with you the whole time. That guy sucks." Y'all not slick.

This whole "what's in fashion" skin color edition can go f#*k itself. It's the literal plot of the movie Get Out. Old white people parading around in the bodies of people of color based on what's "in" or "cool" at the time. A better metaphor for what changing Superman's race right now would mean doesn't exist, I promise you. Get Out was one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in my life. I damn near had an existential crisis on the drive home thinking about this in terms of my life and the media I consume.

I have no right answer for if it's good in the long run or not, but I just know if we're this specific instance and this specific time, it sort of creeps me right the hell out.

Very well-said. I don't think WB is thinking about it as anything more than "Black Panther killed because he's black and that's 'in' right now, so let's make a black Superman." I wouldn't be surprised one bit if their big takeaway from Aquaman was that Jason was non-white instead of all the wonderful things that movie had going for it. These guys do not learn the right lessons from the mistakes that should humble them, much like Sony. The problem with their Superman efforts has never been the color of his skin. Look at Marvel's Avengers. All the core group are white yet I've never head a criticism of that movie related to their ethnicity (perhaps I'm not looking hard enough) because Marvel had an approach to really make their characters shine.

As many others have said, I generally prefer when characters are portrayed the way I've read them for years, but it's not too big a deal. My bigger concern is that, right now, I don't trust that they know how to handle the Superman IP given the only stories they tell outside comics are when he dies or turns evil, regardless of his skin color.

[cookies]

Like it says. If Superman was portrayed in film or TV as a black, Hispanic, or even Asian actor, would you like it, dislike it, or even care?

Dean Cain is 1/4 Japanese a I freaking love Lois and Clark the new adventure of superman. He was the best Clark Kent to me.

[Kon93]

I read your post from a page back, and, with respect, I don't think we share the same views on this even though they conclude similarly on some surface level. Again, with respect to you, I just wanted that out there and clear.

Oh dont get me wrong,i also agree we are miles away on most things,which is good imo,just giving you props for what you wrote

[Kon93]

Jason mamoa looks like a version of aquaman
Dean Cain looks like superman

2 things

Identity politics in movies ruins movies

If the character is based off of more than a original idea then respect the original intent.

[Superlad93]

I can’t see a black or latino Supes championing “The American Way” or even being a big believer in American “justice” or “truth”.

I disagree with the reasoning behind this idea you've presented. It makes the kind of really gross and unflattering assumption Clark is only only able to believe these abstracts if they all benefit him directly systemically because he's white. That just isn't true of the character. He was created with the explicit idea fighting for people who couldn't fight for themselves, and that 100000% extended systemic and social issues.

He ripped down dilapidated housing to force a city to build more suitable ones for their less fortunate people. He terrorized businessmen government officials who made life a living hell for poor people. He threw wife beaters out of windows. Superman believes truth, justice, and the American way not as they are, but as they could and should be. I don't think this is even remotely a reason to say a person of color can't be Superman.

That said, I do think there is something to be said about Superman being about unselfish and responsible use of power, privilege, and position. Lets be real: he's all of those things, but the difference between him and others in realistic equivalent is that he's not dick. He's actually just a considerate person who dosen't think to himself "how can I get ahead" but rather "what are all the ways I can help everyone who's not as cosmically lucky as I am?" There's commentary there that I feel like most film executives are super uncomfortable will allowing to be tackled especially now. So, he's recast as somehow greatly marginalized for sympathy points all while being a white, able-bodied, heterosexual, handsome dude......with the powers of a god. I think they're uncomfortable because he'd make them and their like look like the goblins they are.

But *shrugs* that's just me thinking out loud.

[Robanker]

I disagree with the reasoning behind this idea you've presented. It makes the kind of really gross and unflattering assumption Clark is only only able to believe these abstracts if they all benefit him directly systemically because he's white. That just isn't true of the character. He was created with the explicit idea fighting for people who couldn't fight for themselves, and that 100000% extended systemic and social issues.

He ripped down dilapidated housing to force a city to build more suitable ones for their less fortunate people. He terrorized businessmen government officials who made life a living hell for poor people. He threw wife beaters out of windows. Superman believes truth, justice, and the American way not as they are, but as they could and should be. I don't think this is even remotely a reason to say a person of color can't be Superman.

That said, I do think there is something to be said about Superman being about unselfish and responsible use of power, privilege, and position. Lets be real: he's all of those things, but the difference between him and others in realistic equivalent is that he's not dick. He's actually just a considerate person who dosen't think to himself "how can I get ahead" but rather "what are all the ways I can help everyone who's not as cosmically lucky as I am?" There's commentary there that I feel like most film executives are super uncomfortable will allowing to be tackled especially now. So, he's recast as somehow greatly marginalized for sympathy points all while being a white, able-bodied, heterosexual, handsome dude......with the powers of a god. I think they're uncomfortable because he'd make them and their like look like the goblins they are.

But *shrugs* that's just me thinking out loud.

How dare you defame goblins, sir!

I just don't think you can unironically champion "the American way" right now given that the zeitgeist is more cynical than ever unless it was to draw attention to how we've come to distrust it. When Clark says it, he's championing the America that exists in a Rockwell painting; he's championing the spirit of Smallville, possibly the most welcoming town on DC's Earth. The problem is it's not interpreted that way, and for good reason. That said, I think a nonwhite Superman would absolutely be able to if he so chose, because he'd lead by example. He'd remind a misguided America of what it should stand for, what a proper American way is, instead of what we've come to understand is a greatly flawed system that treats people unfairly. A core tenant to his character isn't just helping, but being the Man of Tomorrow for Christ's sake. I can absolutely see a Superman of any ethnicity challenging abuse of police powers and decrying them as betraying the very spirit of what this country was founded for.

Yes, the concept of the United States as a country where anyone could come and make a great life for themselves has never been properly realized. There's always been an awful side to it, and Superman is a great character to expose that and strive toward realizing it in its purest form. That concept, assuming I've conveyed my thoughts correctly, would resonate regardless of who is championing it.

I think this idea is born of the idea that Superman is and should be an agent of the status quo, not of progress, which is what he was born to be. He's not supposed to enforce laws when they're fundamentally wrong. If American truth and justice are flawed, any Superman should be hell-bent on righting them.