Would you care if Superman was portrayed by a person of color?

[superduperman]

Technically Dean Cain is I think a quarter Asian so it's kind of already happened. It would depend on the circumstances. If we're talking the classic found-by-the-Kents Clark Kent then I would be apprehensive. If we're talking something like Calvin Ellis, I don't see why not. I think you could do a black Superman being raised by white parents, I just think it would be a little jarring to most audiences. The best way to do it would be to introduce him in a movie alongside mainstream Superman. Maybe have it be the Earth 2 version of Val Zod. Superman is dead and he's his replacement. If that catches on, then they can give him his own movie in his own universe.

[seismic-2]

Maybe they could test it out on a temporary basis...

[Ascended]

I'm sorry, but I tend to have this gross feeling when I can pretty overly see that my skin tone (I'm black btw) is being commodified to make a struggling or problematic character more sympathetic or less "whitebread" for the general public.

Im not entirely sure how I feel about the subject; I support diversity as much as I can and I accept that sometimes race-bending might be necessary (since new or D-list characters dont usually do well in the market) but I do very much agree with Superlad on this.

And I should say outright that when this same thread was put on the Wonder Woman forum, I said I'd be fine with it, largely because I've never really considered Diana to be "white" anyway. She's more a Mediterranean/Greek/Middle Eastern/Turkish fusion in my mind, based on the geographic area/s the Amazons were supposed to have come from. So she's always been kinda multiracial in my head. So for her, DC making her non-white would really just be them getting her closer to what's always been in my mind.

With Clark though, I dont feel like a race-bend is going to actually achieve anything in a legit way. Superlad has said it all better than I could but I feel like it would be very disingenuous. I feel like it wouldnt really be servicing the cause of diversity, but using Clark to try to cash in on it.

Now, if you wanted to keep Clark's visual but give it a couple minor tweaks, that might be fine. A slightly different shade of skin, a slightly different shape to the eyes or nose......you could give Clark a certain biracial visual without really changing what he looks like to any major degree. And I dont think minor adjustments like that would be an issue. But changing his visual completely? That's questionable.

[Steven Caldwell]

You know it is the 2010's when questions like "what if <insert super hero here> was <insert race here>. Ugh.

[Yoda]

Was it Yang & Pak who had an interview a while back about how the theme of “passing” is built into the dna of the character from Siegel & Schusters original concept of the character? In that sense a racially ambiguous Clark may actually be closer to the core concept of the character than a purely cacuasian approach.

As for the rest of the characters, there’s nothing about Lois, Perry, Jimmy, or Luthor that limits their representation. Lois was Asian in American Alien I think.

[Ascended]

Was it Yang & Pak who had an interview a while back about how the theme of “passing” is built into the dna of the character from Siegel & Schusters original concept of the character? In that sense a racially ambiguous Clark may actually be closer to the core concept of the character than a purely cacuasian approach.

As for the rest of the characters, there’s nothing about Lois, Perry, Jimmy, or Luthor that limits their representation. Lois was Asian in American Alien I think.

Sounds like something Yang would say. He has great insights into the character and how Clark/Superman/Kal fits into society.

And I loved half-Japanese Lois Lane in American Alien! Considering what her father does, it'd fit quite nicely if Sam Lane had picked up a wife overseas, and Lois' mother has so rarely been a consideration of any kind in the comics I feel like that's a retcon you could slip in and get away with. And it doesn't really change Lois' visual very much either, but does add a little "spice" to it.

[Kuwagaton]

Here's why I don't like the "Goku isn't really Asian" argument to the awful casting of Justin Chatwin (no offense, dude, but you're no Goku)

1) Goku is in many ways Japanese Superman. Just like Superman isn't really Caucasian, because he's Kryptonian and such, he was written for what was largely a predominantly white, American audience. He was supposed to look like his readers. Then it became he was supposed to look like a country boy from rural Kansas (84% white in 2010, even more so back in WWII era). Similarly, Goku to some sense was supposed to look like his readers/viewers (originally Asian kids). Both characters were drawn that way for decades. But if that's not good enough of a reason for me to be annoyed...

2) So the DB: Evolution team tries to acknowledge its inherent Asian-ness by casting an Asian Chichi, an Asian Yamcha, an Asian Master Roshi, an Asian Grandpa, but... stupid Hollywood people said no, we will not cast an Asian Goku. Seriously, it almost makes the casting even worse than just casting white everybody, at least in the sense that it says yes, we can have peripheral or supporting Asian actors and characters in the movie, but hero has to be a white boy. Ditto my KoF example: Grandpa can be Asian, Chizuru can be Asian, Mai can be Asian (that was a bad casting job, BTW ), Iori Yagami can be Asian (also ridiculous casting as dude was pushing 40...), but they would not allow the main character to be played by anything but a white guy even though his grandpa is Japanese and his name is Kyo effin' Kusanagi. It screams "your people are not good enough, even to play your people, in a role of consequence." I guess they didn't yellowface, if you need to find a positive out of this...

Oh yeah. There was that and it was bad. Although DBE is an example of doing virtually everything wrong there is to be messed up and I have nothing good to say about it, Goku is a character whose strength was tied to becoming a blonde with green eyes, so there's some coincidental weirdness. And I can't remember just how close it came out to Speed Racer, where they took another Japanese series and cast all but two Asians.

Along the lines of talking about passing, Superman was built with the dark features of his two creators (even if the visual guides were men like Fairbanks) and I wish I could say I was more knowledgeable about what it meant for Jewish people then to assimilate with other North American cultures.

Jason mamoa looks like a version of aquaman

"A" version. He looked like the Marvel version, Namor. Tom was clearly a Pacific Islander and Arthur was sporting tribal tattoos as a young man in New England.

I disagree with the reasoning behind this idea you've presented. It makes the kind of really gross and unflattering assumption Clark is only only able to believe these abstracts if they all benefit him directly systemically because he's white. That just isn't true of the character. He was created with the explicit idea fighting for people who couldn't fight for themselves, and that 100000% extended systemic and social issues.

He ripped down dilapidated housing to force a city to build more suitable ones for their less fortunate people. He terrorized businessmen government officials who made life a living hell for poor people. He threw wife beaters out of windows. Superman believes truth, justice, and the American way not as they are, but as they could and should be. I don't think this is even remotely a reason to say a person of color can't be Superman.

Between Robert Morales doing his story with Kyle Baker on Isaiah Bradley and Rick Remender using Sam, I remember how I was disappointed to see then Cap writer Brubaker turn down the basic idea based on race.

[Restingvoice]

Yes, because of Ma and Pa Kent are an old white couple, as in they live there forever, in a predominantly small-town Kansas... at least I think it's predominantly white, because that's all I see everytime... and Clark Kent isn't supposed to stand out. He's one of the majority, blending,quiet and unassuming.

Unless they change the whole set.

[Superlad93]

How dare you defame goblins, sir!

Oh god, you're right! That was a very real attack against goblins, and I couldn't possibly be more sorry.

I just don't think you can unironically champion "the American way" right now given that the zeitgeist is more cynical than ever unless it was to draw attention to how we've come to distrust it. When Clark says it, he's championing the America that exists in a Rockwell painting; he's championing the spirit of Smallville, possibly the most welcoming town on DC's Earth. The problem is it's not interpreted that way, and for good reason. That said, I think a nonwhite Superman would absolutely be able to if he so chose, because he'd lead by example. He'd remind a misguided America of what it should stand for, what a proper American way is, instead of what we've come to understand is a greatly flawed system that treats people unfairly. A core tenant to his character isn't just helping, but being the Man of Tomorrow for Christ's sake. I can absolutely see a Superman of any ethnicity challenging abuse of police powers and decrying them as betraying the very spirit of what this country was founded for.

Yes, the concept of the United States as a country where anyone could come and make a great life for themselves has never been properly realized. There's always been an awful side to it, and Superman is a great character to expose that and strive toward realizing it in its purest form. That concept, assuming I've conveyed my thoughts correctly, would resonate regardless of who is championing it.

I think this idea is born of the idea that Superman is and should be an agent of the status quo, not of progress, which is what he was born to be. He's not supposed to enforce laws when they're fundamentally wrong. If American truth and justice are flawed, any Superman should be hell-bent on righting them.

Right. At my core I couldn't agree more. There's maybe one conceptual/thematic reason for Superman needing to be a white, heterosexual, handsome dude as far as I can see, and that's, like I said, power, privilege, and position not corrupting but only allowing one better position to help their fellow man unselfishly. Jor-El was pretty right on the money when he said Kal would thrive on Earth, huh? But, yeah, outside of that, I think his story and character work just fine as whatever other ethnicity or race. This isn't Bruce "old money as hell" Wayne we're talking about here, ya know lol I just simply don't like the real reasons and likely execution the studios will put behind a change in Clark's race.

I'm genuinely said over my level of cynicism on this topic.

[Soubhagya]

Of course, i would care. I am a Superman fan.

I would love to see Calvin Ellis above all. Dude's secret identity is president of United States of America. That was one of the best alternate versions of Superman.

But if you are doing Clark Kent. That's a bit weird. The image of Superman is deeply embedded within the mind. After years of thinking like that you change something quite drastically. That would be weird. But since i love Superman, i will check it out for sure. But after that its about the execution.

If he clicks, who knows he would be my Superman. If not then he maybe someone else's Superman. Superman is an 'imaginary' character. He can be what the world needs him to be. Or not be anything. He doesn't owe this world a thing.

Sorry. Got carried away. Point is, the idea of Superman is far bigger then his appearance. After the initial whiplash its all about how its executed on page or screen. Personally, i would prefer him to stay like that. But that's due to a sense of possesion which comes out of love. And i am pretty sure most people here think that way.

Going the Miles Morales route is the best imho. That way you can have the cake and eat it too. There is a ready made Miles in Calvin Ellis. Give him a push. And you can succeed without going through controversy which is avoidable.

[Soubhagya]

When you say Asian. What do you mean exactly? The race or people of that continent. I mean,this guy
I am not advocating for a casting.
I don't want Clark to be race bended. He is perfect as he is. Maybe an elseworld like val-zod

Sorry to say but playing Superman would be a step down for Mr. Hrithik Roshan.

Meet Krrish!



He is a really good actor and has played Krrish twice. I enjoyed the first far more then any modern Superman film. And while watching the second one i caught myself thinking quite a number of times, 'Oh! I wanted to see this in Man of Steel. They get Superman better.'

If anyone can go through average to poor cgi and unnecessary songs, both the films are very solid superhero films.

[Robanker]

Oh god, you're right! That was a very real attack against goblins, and I couldn't possibly be more sorry.



Right. At my core I couldn't agree more. There's maybe one conceptual/thematic reason for Superman needing to be a white, heterosexual, handsome dude as far as I can see, and that's, like I said, power, privilege, and position not corrupting but only allowing one better position to help their fellow man unselfishly. Jor-El was pretty right on the money when he said Kal would thrive on Earth, huh? But, yeah, outside of that, I think his story and character work just fine as whatever other ethnicity or race. This isn't Bruce "old money as hell" Wayne we're talking about here, ya know lol I just simply don't like the real reasons and likely execution the studios will put behind a change in Clark's race.

I'm genuinely said over my level of cynicism on this topic.

While I see what you're going for, I think that's more a side-effect than anything else. His powerset does enough to establish that he's got every resource needed to enslave us if he chose to, any semblance of social privilege becomes largely irrelevant when you can throw an asteroid field at the Earth in a matter of seconds. He can take over any resource and go to whichever country his particular demographic is accepted in and instantly make it a world power overnight. I really do understand what you mean, Captain America: The First Avenger was essentially that concept crystallized. Steve is a heterosexual white man who gains--relative to that point in time-- superhuman abilities and it never once corrupts him. He just wants to stop people who punch down from having the ability to hurt others, regardless of color or creed. And he really wants to fondue sometime with that cute British lady.

I think it works for Cap better than Clark because Cap is specifically an answer to the Nazi ideals that worship the blue-eyed blond white male which, well, Steve is. Clark doesn't /need/ to be white, he just needs to be someone with power who uses it in service of others.

Do I prefer my Superman as he's always been portrayed (a handsome white heterosexual dude)? Sure, that's the character I've grown to love over the years and I'd rather he not change in that respect. But I don't think those traits are so built-in (as you said, Bruce coming from old money does complicate things for the time being) that they preclude the idea of some alternate version of Clark Kent be, say, Asian or some such. Nor does it hamper the narrative in any meaningful way.

[Soubhagya]

Was it Yang & Pak who had an interview a while back about how the theme of “passing” is built into the dna of the character from Siegel & Schusters original concept of the character? In that sense a racially ambiguous Clark may actually be closer to the core concept of the character than a purely cacuasian approach.

As for the rest of the characters, there’s nothing about Lois, Perry, Jimmy, or Luthor that limits their representation. Lois was Asian in American Alien I think.

And Indian in Secret Identity. Whoever was responsible for that, my thanks!

[Superlad93]

While I see what you're going for, I think that's more a side-effect than anything else. His powerset does enough to establish that he's got every resource needed to enslave us if he chose to, any semblance of social privilege becomes largely irrelevant when you can throw an asteroid field at the Earth in a matter of seconds. He can take over any resource and go to whichever country his particular demographic is accepted in and instantly make it a world power overnight.

Yeah, I'm aware of the functional futility of it in the grand sense, but I'm speaking symbolically, thematically, and in a topical sense. Outside of that, I don't think there are too many compelling narrative based arguments for his race staying what it is. All the other reasons are outside of the character. Like simply being accustomed to the way he looks, or my feeling gross about it because of the people behind it.

[manwhohaseverything]

Sorry to say but playing Superman would be a step down for Mr. Hrithik Roshan.

Meet Krrish!



He is a really good actor and has played Krrish twice. I enjoyed the first far more then any modern Superman film. And while watching the second one i caught myself thinking quite a number of times, 'Oh! I wanted to see this in Man of Steel. They get Superman better.'

If anyone can go through average to poor cgi and unnecessary songs, both the films are very solid superhero films.

I said I was not advocating for a casting. I don't want nor prefer race changed Clark and Lois. I like them as they are. I can relate to Clark without him being my race or whatever.I don't look for skin colour when I like something.They can make someone else take the title superman like val zod or make special case superman is not an alien Clark Kent like in secret identity.
I was just asking what does he mean by Asian. It is not a race. It is a continent where different races live. People there can be brown, black, yellow or white.