Is Steve Rogers, Captain America, Different Now?

[jackolover]

I ask this because Steve Rogers started as the penultimate hero in comics, was rendered a mischief maker in Civil War 2006, then killed and ‘Reborn’. In Heroic Age he became a mere administrator, as well as in ANAD, till he was inverted by Kobik, and later popped out of a Cosmic Cube all hale and holy again.

But what I see now of Steve Rogers doesn’t inspire me with any real spirit of heroism. Today, Steve Rogers seems a broken man, seeking approval before he can return to his mission confident and unhindered.

What do you say? Is Steve lacking without the friendship of old Nick Fury, or Bucky, or Sam Wilson?

[Orbus]

He still had the friendship of Bucky and Sam.

He's still undergoing his heroic mission and does not seem like a broken man seeking approval. His superhero peers have largely accepted the events of Secret Empire were not his fault as have the public in the Marvel Universe at large. The sticking point is the US Government who don't really trust him which puts him in the same situation as most Captain America runs. Steve Rogers being at odds with US government and holding on to what he believes are America's higher ideals has been done so often it's part of the character's makeup and depends on the writer's execution whether it still works. Also he doesn't seem to have lost confidence or hindered by this. Avengers #700 he practically told Thunderbolt Ross that if he messed with him he'd regret it.

[jackolover]

He still had the friendship of Bucky and Sam.

He's still undergoing his heroic mission and does not seem like a broken man seeking approval. His superhero peers have largely accepted the events of Secret Empire were not his fault as have the public in the Marvel Universe at large. The sticking point is the US Government who don't really trust him which puts him in the same situation as most Captain America runs. Steve Rogers being at odds with US government and holding on to what he believes are America's higher ideals has been done so often it's part of the character's makeup and depends on the writer's execution whether it still works. Also he doesn't seem to have lost confidence or hindered by this. Avengers #700 he practically told Thunderbolt Ross that if he messed with him he'd regret it.

But I think Steve Rogers himself floats around without links to some form of SHIELD anymore, and trying to find out if America still loves him after Secret Empire.

I remember when Cap first appeared in Avengers #4 he barked orders at a stranger in Rick Jones, and in Avengers #6, someone commented how easily he concocts a plan in front of more experienced senior Avengers, and how lucky the Avengers were.

I don’t think Steve Rogers can feel he can do this today?

Bucky hasn’t come along to team up with Steve since SE, and, Sam Wilson is avoiding him like the plague. These are, all 3 of them, Captain America, and Steve Rogers fumbles around getting nowhere. It does feel like the time Cap was the Nomad, except he hasn’t disowned the government, and changed his costume. Now, the government won’t trust him after SE.

[Valamist]

To be honest, I kinda would like to see a more broken Steve. The events of Secret Empire have been so easily forgotten and forgiven that he really has not had a hard time, from what I have read. I mean yeah, it was not his fault but the people of the Marvel Universe are idiots, and I would have liked Cap to have had an introspective look at things.

[Snoop Dogg]

Doing big triumphant Captain America wouldn't be good for new stories. Waid's new run with Samnee was supposed to get that all out of the way. The environment where his image is tarnished and he's disliked is the good one for new stories, so they're right for going with that.

Steve is still working with Bucky in the Cap book and Spencer's run ends with Sam doing the ultimate bro-move for Steve. They're all cool with each other.

[MajorHoy]

Doing big triumphant Captain America wouldn't be good for new stories. Waid's new run with Samnee was supposed to get that all out of the way.

But Waid only gave us three issues where Steve was doing his journey across America to re-establish his reputation before they stuck him in an iceberg again, right?
(I gave up on the series after the issue with Kraven.)

[cc008]

Bucky hasn’t come along to team up with Steve since SE, and, Sam Wilson is avoiding him like the plague. These are, all 3 of them, Captain America, and Steve Rogers fumbles around getting nowhere. It does feel like the time Cap was the Nomad, except he hasn’t disowned the government, and changed his costume. Now, the government won’t trust him after SE.

Bucky was working with Steve in early issues of the current Cap run to take down a Nuke. They appear to be on working terms AT THE LEAST. But seeing as how Bucky saw first hand how Kobik rewrote history, I don't see him having any issues with Steve.

[Orbus]

But I think Steve Rogers himself floats around without links to some form of SHIELD anymore, and trying to find out if America still loves him after Secret Empire.

I remember when Cap first appeared in Avengers #4 he barked orders at a stranger in Rick Jones, and in Avengers #6, someone commented how easily he concocts a plan in front of more experienced senior Avengers, and how lucky the Avengers were.

I don’t think Steve Rogers can feel he can do this today?

Bucky hasn’t come along to team up with Steve since SE, and, Sam Wilson is avoiding him like the plague. These are, all 3 of them, Captain America, and Steve Rogers fumbles around getting nowhere. It does feel like the time Cap was the Nomad, except he hasn’t disowned the government, and changed his costume. Now, the government won’t trust him after SE.

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no SHIELD anymore. It would be nice to see some former agents set up some kind of organisation that Steve can liaise with but he's never really worked for them.

Steve wandered America briefly during Waid's run basically to see if America still loves him and depicted a United States where the people still believed in Captain America. Since then we've had ti shown that even Steve has the faith of the people he doesn't have the government on his side which is pretty much par of the course with Captain America comics. Steve doesn't care if the government likes him, that doesn't sound like a character who is broken but one who is confident.

I'm not sure a very early silver age characterisation should be brought up as proof of anything. Steve is not the kind of leader that barks out orders, when he does that you know there is something wrong with him. Like the brief time in Busiek's Avengers run where he carried over some of the emotional baggage Steve had going on in his solo book at the time. Then in Remenders Uncanny Avengers run when he had Steve suddenly get all angry drill sergeant but later had him admit he was not handling being back from Dimension-Z well given he left behind a son. You could even use Avengers #4 as an example of this given the shock of him being trapped in ice.

As others have mentioned Bucky was teaming up with Cap in the beginning of the current run and he's on good terms with Sam. It'd be nice if they showed up more since nether have a lot of outlets right now but in the modern age they've always been intermittent partners than ever present ones.

[jackolover]

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no SHIELD anymore. It would be nice to see some former agents set up some kind of organisation that Steve can liaise with but he's never really worked for them.

Steve wandered America briefly during Waid's run basically to see if America still loves him and depicted a United States where the people still believed in Captain America. Since then we've had ti shown that even Steve has the faith of the people he doesn't have the government on his side which is pretty much par of the course with Captain America comics. Steve doesn't care if the government likes him, that doesn't sound like a character who is broken but one who is confident.

I'm not sure a very early silver age characterisation should be brought up as proof of anything. Steve is not the kind of leader that barks out orders, when he does that you know there is something wrong with him. Like the brief time in Busiek's Avengers run where he carried over some of the emotional baggage Steve had going on in his solo book at the time. Then in Remenders Uncanny Avengers run when he had Steve suddenly get all angry drill sergeant but later had him admit he was not handling being back from Dimension-Z well given he left behind a son. You could even use Avengers #4 as an example of this given the shock of him being trapped in ice.

As others have mentioned Bucky was teaming up with Cap in the beginning of the current run and he's on good terms with Sam. It'd be nice if they showed up more since nether have a lot of outlets right now but in the modern age they've always been intermittent partners than ever present ones.

Thanks for the background interpretation of the Busiek era with Cap and his problems. I’m glad Cap teamed up with Bucky recently, but I didn’t know Steve was good with Sam Wilson.

How is Steve Rogers getting on with the Avengers? He was in that book when it started.

[MajorHoy]

. . . But what I see now of Steve Rogers doesn’t inspire me with any real spirit of heroism. Today, Steve Rogers seems a broken man, seeking approval before he can return to his mission confident and unhindered.

That's not necessarily a sign of a "broken" character.
I think it may just as easily be more a case of writers not rising to the proper occasion with the character.

[pageturner]

I think he is a man with a mission more than ever. He did not have Bucky for most of his modern marvel run. Sam ebbed and flowed as a partner. Tony and various avenger have been more consistent.

[jackolover]

I think he is a man with a mission more than ever. He did not have Bucky for most of his modern marvel run. Sam ebbed and flowed as a partner. Tony and various avenger have been more consistent.

What kind of mission do you think Steve Rogers is on now?

[jackolover]

That's not necessarily a sign of a "broken" character.
I think it may just as easily be more a case of writers not rising to the proper occasion with the character.

That’s being very kind to suggest it’s merely writing issues. You’d think after Secret Empire, writers would be clammering to do a triumphant Captain America as a counter-balance to the negativity of Hydra Cap? But they let him languish in a self-conscious introspection.

[Prof. Warren]

I ask this because Steve Rogers started as the penultimate hero in comics, was rendered a mischief maker in Civil War 2006, then killed and ‘Reborn’. In Heroic Age he became a mere administrator, as well as in ANAD, till he was inverted by Kobik, and later popped out of a Cosmic Cube all hale and holy again.

But what I see now of Steve Rogers doesn’t inspire me with any real spirit of heroism. Today, Steve Rogers seems a broken man, seeking approval before he can return to his mission confident and unhindered.

I would suggest that you read up on more Cap. Going back to Cap's stories chronicled by everyone from Stan Lee, to Steve Englehart, to Mark Gruenwald, Cap has historically been portrayed as full of self-doubt, a man capable of heavy reflection, burdened by a sense of solitude, and often questioning towards his place in the world.

So, no - Cap hasn't changed. His current portrayal is very much in line with Cap stories of the past.

Also, you misused "penultimate." It's a frequent mistake that many make - assuming "penultimate" somehow means the best or the highest example of something when actually it refers to something being next to last.

[jackolover]

I would suggest that you read up on more Cap. Going back to Cap's stories chronicled by everyone from Stan Lee, to Steve Englehart, to Mark Gruenwald, Cap has historically been portrayed as full of self-doubt, a man capable of heavy reflection, burdened by a sense of solitude, and often questioning towards his place in the world.

So, no - Cap hasn't changed. His current portrayal is very much in line with Cap stories of the past.

Also, you misused "penultimate." It's a frequent mistake that many make - assuming "penultimate" somehow means the best or the highest example of something when actually it refers to something being next to last.

Thanks for the correction on penultimate. I did have reservations using it, and anticipated some response.

I am aware of Steve Rogers propensity for self-doubt even from the early Stan Lee years, but that’s not what I’m getting at here. Ever since Civil War 2006 and his apparent death and resurrection, Steve Rogers has been reticent in a lot of ways he wouldn’t normally have been, in bygone eras. Maybe I’m seeing too much in the post-CW Steve Rogers because I have had a certain interpretation of the years 2006-2019. And from that viewpoint (that all Classic super heroes have degenerated to being grey instead of heroic), that Steve has been tainted, like he’s been chained up. Steve has not been able to exercise the freedom he had to operate, which he had right up to the Waid era. Brubaker had Steve Rogers butt heads with the Vice-President, and then finally with the POTUS, till he was “killed”. After that, Steve was hampered by his role as the Top Security chief of the super heroes. He was never able to be free as the Avengers leader ever again, until maybe the current Avengers run, but I haven’t been impressed by that dark series, immersed in an alternate reality with One Million Year Avengers. That seems a highly unlikely history.

So the Steve Rogers you are referring too, hasn’t been seen since Civil War 2006 to my mind. ANAD hasn’t brought back the freedom that Steve Rogers was used too in the first 50 years of the Silver Age to CW. I think Steve Rogers is chained, much like the “Unseen” Nick Fury on the moon.

What I’d really want to see is Steve Rogers let go. Millennials have a certain influence on society now in the USA, and I’d like to see Captain America exercise a character that was politically incorrect for the most part, reflecting his age as an old man. I don’t mind him running foul of millennials sensitivities. I think that has been Caps problems all along - not accepting that millennials are the right way to go into the future. I think Cap has to make a choice. Be millennial sensitive to the MAX, or, be himself and be prepared to have his old fogey ways criticised.