How Do You See The Bat-Family?

[Godlike13]

Im not misunderstanding, you keep repeating how Bette is there to be a better vigilante, i understand the supposed reasoning. Regardless, again, West Point is not a school for vigilantes, it hasn't even produced any well known vigilantes. The story logic behind her being there is faulty no matter how many times its repeated. The real reason Bette is there was to get her out of the picture. That is blatantly obvious. Trying to pretend its anything more then that, or argue that Bette should remained maroon there is just silly. Its not really in character, the in story justification doesn't really make sense, and it has served no other purpose but to write her out of the picture. There is no reason she needs to remain there.

[Caivu]

Im not misunderstanding, you keep repeating how Bette is there to be a better vigilante, i understand the supposed reasoning. Regardless, again, West Point is not a school for vigilantes, it hasn't even produced any well known vigilantes.

Respectfully, it doesn't sound like you understand. You keep going back to this "West Point is not a school for vigilantes" thing, but no one is making that argument.

Again: Bette is going there to get more training, and to learn more skills, because no one else will teach her, and the skills she will learn there are applicable to vigilantism. That doesn't mean West Point's a "school for vigilantes", only that the things they teach can be applied to vigilantism, which is precisely why Bette is there. In other words, her own goals are seperate from those of the Academy's; they're training her to be a soldier, but Bette doesn't really want to be a soldier.

Its not in character, the in story justification doesn't really make any sense

Why? You still haven't explained this. What, specifically, doesn't make sense? What's out of character?

[Godlike13]

Ya, no one is saying that at all. Your just saying that Bette is going there to learn how to be a better vigilante, even though we all seem clear that West Point is not a school for vigilantes and that's not what it does. Do you seriously not see how ridiculous this is.

[Caivu]

Ya, no one is saying that at all. Your just saying that Bette is going there to learn how to be a better vigilante, even though we all seem clear that West Point is not a school for vigilantes and that's not what it does. Do you seriously not see how ridiculous this is.

You're still not getting it. The skills Bette would be taught there would transfer over to vigilantism. That's the point.

It'd be like someone taking business management and accounting classes with the intent to actually be a drug dealer. Is the school teaching someone who does that how to be a drug dealer? No, of course not. But learning those things would be incredibly beneficial for that. It's the same thing here.

[byrd156]

seems like byrd is coming form a pre n52 perspective on this. Are you as well? this might be the disconnect.

Jake gets me.

[Godlike13]

You're still not getting it. The skills Bette would be taught there would transfer over to vigilantism. That's the point.

It'd be like someone taking business management and accounting classes with the intent to actually be a drug dealer. Is the school teaching someone who does that how to be a drug dealer? No, of course not. But learning those things would be incredibly beneficial for that. It's the same thing here.

According to who? West point has produced no known vigilantes. That's not what West Point does, not even in the DCU. Its a Military Academy, not specialized Black Ops training.

[Caivu]

According to who? West point has produced no known vigilantes. That's not what West Point does, not even in the DCU.

I don't understand what you're not getting here. This really isn't difficult.

If you attend West Point, you will learn skills that will be beneficial if you later decide to become a vigilante. That is precisely what Bette is doing.

That does not mean that West Point is teaching Bette, or anyone else, how to be a vigilante. She simply intends to apply the skills she learns there to vigilantism. That's it.

[Frontier]

All this talk about Bette makes me hope somebody remembers her this year.

Maybe she'll pop up in Young Justice or something...either the comic or the cartoon, but as minor as her appearance in the cartoon was I think Greg Weisman probably has more of a plan for her then DC corporate does .

[Flashback]

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According to Bette.

Godlike13 Your arguing that it doesn't make sense for Bette to join the academy since "West point has produced no known vigilantes", but if we pretend that the DC universe was real, then Bette who is a fan of Batwoman and knows that Kate Kane also attended the academy, it makes sense why she would enroll. She wants to prove that she's worthy and ready. Thats the Comic book explanation, which makes sense from this comic version of Bette so far.

[Agent Z]

Bette had nothing to do with the military or anything like that until she started hanging around Kate post reboot. She was definitely influenced by Kate. But like I keep saying it's a non-existent direction that doesn't fit her character. If some writer wants to come in and make it work then I'll go with it but that hasn't happened.

That's not the same thing as going to military school because you are told to. Influence and orders are not the same thing.

[Godlike13]

tumblr_oynpsojhZf1w0s0t5o1_1280.jpg

According to Bette.

Godlike13 Your arguing that it doesn't make sense for Bette to join the academy since "West point has produced no known vigilantes", but if we pretend that the DC universe was real, then Bette who is a fan of Batwoman and knows that Kate Kane also attended the academy, it makes sense why she would enroll. She wants to prove that she's worthy and ready. Thats the Comic book explanation, which makes sense from this comic version of Bette so far.

Kate Kane attended West Point when she was looking to pursue a life in the military, it's not what trained her to be Batwoman. Thats scene IMO is terrible and misunderstands Batwoman's history (and what kind of commitment West Point is). Bette going to West Point to prove to Kate she ready to be a superhero makes no sense. Its not why Kate went there, and again its not what West Point even does. Didn't do it for Kate. While Bette wanting to prove herself to Kate make sense, her going to West Point to do that does not. And Kate even indulging that idea makes even less.

[Caivu]

Kate Kane attended West Point when she was looking to pursue a life in the military, it's not what trained her to be Batwoman. Thats scene is terrible and misunderstands Batwoman's history (and what kind of commitment West Point is).

It doesn't misunderstand her history. You're not interpreting the scene correctly.

Bette going to West Point to prove to Kate she ready to be a superhero makes no sense. Its not why Kate went there, and again its not what West Point even does. Didn't do it for Kate.

Again, for the nth time, no one is saying this. You're the only one who has brought it up, and I don't even understand where you're getting it from.

I'm bolding this so maybe this time you will see it:
Bette is at West Point to gain skills she can use for vigilantism. That does not mean that West Point teaches or promotes vigilantism.

While Bette wanting to prove herself to Kate make sense, her going to West Point to do that does not. And Kate even indulging that idea makes even less.

Kate is not indulging Bette wanting to be a vigilante. She wants Bette to continue her studies and fulfill her five-year commitment to the Army. Kate does not want Bette to be a vigilante.

And it does make sense for Bette to attend West Point to prove herself. Look at that 'Tec page, first panel, bottom row.

[byrd156]

That's not the same thing as going to military school because you are told to. Influence and orders are not the same thing.

The comic page that is on this very thread page sure as hell makes it seem like Bette is told to be there. That she needs to follow Kate's steps to be a hero. Whether she is explicitly told to go to West Point is not my point, it's that Bette is just doing what she's told. To me the Bette I know and read about was more of a free spirit. She was inspired by Dick and joined Titans West. She would just drop everything to go with Beast Boy to go to Vegas, that kinda thing. I personally think her just going to military school to use it as a form of training doesn't fit her character.

On that same page, she literally says that's an order.

[Godlike13]

It doesn't misunderstand her history. You're not interpreting the scene correctly.



Again, for the nth time, no one is saying this. You're the only one who has brought it up, and I don't even understand where you're getting it from.

I'm bolding this so maybe this time you will see it:
Bette is at West Point to gain skills she can use for vigilantism. That does not mean that West Point teaches or promotes vigilantism.

Kate is not indulging Bette wanting to be a vigilante. She wants Bette to continue her studies and fulfill her five-year commitment to the Army. Kate does not want Bette to be a vigilante.

And it does make sense for Bette to attend West Point to prove herself. Look at that 'Tec page, first panel, bottom row.

Dude, I not doing this. You clearly don’t understand how contradictory that statement is. And don’t try to say she’s not indulging Bette when she so obviously dangles that carrot by saying things like how if Bette does that maybe she’ll put in a good word with Batman.

[Caivu]

I personally think her just going to military school to use it as a form of training doesn't fit her character.

It does given what she wants, which is to go back to being a vigilante and to get Kate's respect (in Bette's mind, anyway).

On that same page, she literally says that's an order.

To stay there, not to attend in the first place.