Jonathan Hickman

[CentralPower]

Thanks for the scans....of comics I have long since packed away. (Rather than reading comics, I should probably organize my collection.)

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks for the scans....of comics I have long since packed away. (Rather than reading comics, I should probably organize my collection.)

I subscribe to Marvel Unlimited and have frequently bought back issue that I already have when they go on sale. I think eventually I will just resort to an IPod as my comic book collection. But I stil like buying the comics themselves but I can see a day when that becomes less frequent.

[jackolover]

Kind of hard to feel betrayed by people who aren't friends with you and won't engage with you.
As for starting the incursions, Doom didn't know that. He was all about finding out what's going on and followed the path his findings took him to. Remember that the first and only encounter with any member of the Illuminati for Doom after that dinner was when Stephen found the library. My recollection here is that Doom didn't realize he was forming the incursions, but was slowing down the plan of the Beyonders by killing all the Molecule Men. So while Doom caused the incursions, it wasn't intentional and in fact probably saved the multiverse.

I was sure Owen Reece was telling Doom to kill more Owen Reece’s to start the Incursions and get that snow-balling faster and faster, so, I think Victor knew about the Incursions were the end result of killing Owens. Doom also kept remnants of destroyed Earths somewhere for the time Battleworld had to be put together.

The only problem for us readers was the dilemma produced by the paradox. Victor went back in time to FF#20, and started killing Owens in 1964. How could Victor change history this way and not know about it in Time Runs Out? Two Dooms? Very much like the two Logan’s in the paradoxical Age of Ultron event.

[jackolover]

Disagree. The Avengers split up, the Tony/Cal divide? Black Panther and Namors rivalry that led to the Cabal...all character driven.

I suppose it comes down to the quality of character driven story by Hickman, not being that emotional. It felt very detached and by the numbers compared to a Stan Lee story or a Bendis story.

[CentralPower]

The best way to look at Doom is in a linear sense.

First, Doom becomes aware of the incursions. Obviously, his curiosity is piqued. Doom then travels back in time, eventually becoming the founder of the Black Swan religion.

The time travelling Doom is essentially co-existing with, and hiding from, his past self.

Along the way, Doom discovers that the Beyonders are planning to blow up everything, in order to make everything die....at once. The solution is to remove Molecule Men (the planned implement of the Beyonders' deranged plan). However, this has the effect of causing universes to die early, if not immediately. (Doom and Reese are shown lingering in universes where they have killed a native Molecule Man, implying that the end cannot be immediately after the Molecule Man dies.)

I like how Doom's quest is just more bad options (even if Doom is less bothered by the moral questions). If he does nothing, the Beyonders kill everything...and everything dies. (That cannot possibly be good.) But, the only way to stop the Beyonders is to risk destroying everything...as a side effect to removing the Beyonders' means of destroying everything.

Aside: I wonder if the Library of Worlds was meant to be more important in the original draft.

[jackolover]

The best way to look at Doom is in a linear sense.

First, Doom becomes aware of the incursions. Obviously, his curiosity is piqued. Doom then travels back in time, eventually becoming the founder of the Black Swan religion.

The time travelling Doom is essentially co-existing with, and hiding from, his past self.

Along the way, Doom discovers that the Beyonders are planning to blow up everything, in order to make everything die....at once. The solution is to remove Molecule Men (the planned implement of the Beyonders' deranged plan). However, this has the effect of causing universes to die early, if not immediately. (Doom and Reese are shown lingering in universes where they have killed a native Molecule Man, implying that the end cannot be immediately after the Molecule Man dies.)

I like how Doom's quest is just more bad options (even if Doom is less bothered by the moral questions). If he does nothing, the Beyonders kill everything...and everything dies. (That cannot possibly be good.) But, the only way to stop the Beyonders is to risk destroying everything...as a side effect to removing the Beyonders' means of destroying everything.

Aside: I wonder if the Library of Worlds was meant to be more important in the original draft.

Thanks for this perspective of what Doom may have intended. It never occurred to me that Victor may have wanted to negate the Beyonders plan to detonate the Multiverse, by just removing the bombs (All the Molecule Men). This idea has a more comfortable feel to it, because it is a logical tactic to use by a human. (My interpretation has a very nihilistic Doom just allow the Multiverse to self destruct).

I was under the impression that Doom had always intended to start the incusions himself. The reason I say this was Owen Reece urged Victor to start the region of the Black Swans to kill thousands and start crashing universes together deliberately. But that interpretation made Victor seem very suicidal. My interpretation had Victor start Incursions so the Beyonders come out of their hiding place to attack Victor. When they do, Victor blows the Beyonders up with a crate full of Molecule Men, and “somehow” Victor absorbs the Beyonders power. It’s unclear how this is done, because Dr Strange says he could have absorbed that power but he didn’t want it, so,Victor did. There is also the unexplained stockpile of fragments of other worlds Victor was hiding somewhere, he put together to make Battleworld.