Jonathan Hickman

[Iron Maiden]

It was a good run of comics that read well?




Hickman himself shows that his run is being ambiguated out at the end of "Secret Wars". The last few pages of "Secret Wars" call back to the opening pages of his "New Avengers" run. But, events clearly unfolded differently.

As I said above, some writers referenced Hickman's run directly, others specifically avoided it. Spencer referenced it as if it happened and was commonly known ("Captain America"), Bendis specifically wrote around it as if it had been over-written and was remembered by only a few ("Iron Man"). They were both top-tier writers. But, either they were given difference direction from editors (who should be on the same page), or they were told "whatever".

I am going with the last few pages of "Secret Wars", and assuming that Marvel does not care about everything fitting together....because Marvel does not.


And, I am still wondering, is Hickman actually confirmed to be going back to Marvel?!?!?

IIRC I saw it on Tom Brevoort's twitter that there was a script submitted. think someone in another thread linked it, which is how I saw it. No name on the project.

[your_name_here]

https://twitter.com/tombrevoort/stat...190203904?s=21

[JKtheMac]

Hickman himself shows that his run is being ambiguated out at the end of "Secret Wars". The last few pages of "Secret Wars" call back to the opening pages of his "New Avengers" run. But, events clearly unfolded differently.

How many times! That wasn't time travel. They were new events AFTER Secret Wars. The whole of Wakanda was resurrected in the new Universe and T'Challas new story starts from there. Think of it as the whole of Wakanda being stored in a time bubble for a few months. Or a save point only for Wakanda, when everyone else's save point was much later just before the last incursion. Most of us didn't even think it was time travel back then. It isn't even feasible now.

1-<First Incursion>-2-<Wakanda Goes to Hell>-3-<Final Incursion>-4-<Secret Wars>-5-<wakanda is resurrected*>

*with full memories of Times 1-4 only with their state of death and destruction back to time 1.

As I said above, some writers referenced Hickman's run directly, others specifically avoided it.

Ignoring it isn't contradicting it. That is just not needing to tell a story about it.

Bendis specifically wrote around it as if it had been over-written and was remembered by only a few ("Iron Man").

Nope Bendis directly references the previous state of Iron Man in the very first issue. That's a direct acknowledgement of the timeline. That's not writing around anything. The only confusion anyone writes about is the very last day when the world was supposed to be destroyed but wasn't.

I am going with the last few pages of "Secret Wars"

And the last few pages of Secret Wars clearly show that there is only one universe left and Reed at al are rebuilding the rest of the multiverse. Something else that is referenced literally hundreds of times since. Nobody important ignored Secret Wars. Nobody pretended that some of the time hadn't happened.

People remember the Cabal.
The United Nations decisions.
The lead up to the last day in Miss Marvel.
The Terregenesis clouds are still floating around in every X-Book and Inhumans Book.
The Inhumans are unrecognisably different directly because of the events after the first incursion.
Ultimates describes how the universe was new but not from the beginning.
Squadron Supreme attack Namor for things he did during the incursions.
Members of the Black order are resurrected because they died in this time period.

Just about every book has some form of reference to events after the first incursion, demonstrating on a monthly basis that there was no time reset apart from Wakanda's reboot.

And, I am still wondering, is Hickman actually confirmed to be going back to Marvel?!?!?

Let's Talk Cyclops! @letstalkCyclops 31 Dec 2018

Is Jonathan hickman writing any comic for marvel in 2019?

Tom Brevoort @TomBrevoort Replying to @letstalkCyclops

Yes, he just sent me a script right before the break.

[jackolover]

I don't think Marvel ignored his run so much as reinterpreted his ending. Certainly, the run was referenced in Coates's Black Panther and some things just changed back during the eight month gap without explanation (such as Superior Iron Man). I mean, it's not like Superior Iron Man was even a Hickman decision anyway, it was part of AXIS.

Which issue of Black Panther is Hickmans run referenced?

[Daniel22]

I think Hickman is fantastic and one of my all time favorite writers. I recommend anything he's done. His indie stuff that I would specifically recommend would be East of West, Black Monday Murders and Nightly News.

As to what he should do at Marvel? WHATEVER HE WANTS. Just hire him and get out of his way.
I like the new writers of the X verse (Rosenberg in particular) but even so, if Hickman wants the line, give it to him. I'd be so down for a years long X Men storyline by Hickman.

[Mike_Murdock]

Which issue of Black Panther is Hickmans run referenced?

The first issue references a ton of the events from Infinity, specifically the invasion of Wakanda by the Black Order and they followed up what happened to Shuri at the end of New Avengers #24 by showing that she had been encased in amber by Thane.

[JamJams]

My favorite run from Hickman was his F4/Avengers/New Avenngers run up to the Secret Wars.

I would love to see him work on the X-Men. They are a property that is in dire need of a writer who will be patient in writing a long-form, multi-arc story that won't get hijacked by events and the books being cancelled/restarted.

[Yohei72]

How familiar are you with the Ultimate Universe? If you don't have any knowledge you should definitely read Mark Millar's run on Ultimates vol 1 and 2. Other reading for good back story is Ultimate Doomsday tpb (it collects Ultimate Enemy, Mystery and Doom).

You could read it without any back story as it is a great story as is but I think it definitely is worth it to read the other stuff.

Not very familiar at all! I was definitely planning to read Millar's Ultimates first in any case, as besides giving useful background on the universe, it seems to be one of the more talked about and influential things Marvel has published in recent decades. Good to have that instinct confirmed.

[Yohei72]

...His Avengers run was clearly a deconstruction and an ending of the Marvel Universe. Doctor Strange has sold his soul, and was the leader of the black priests, genocidal sorcerers. Captain America hated so much Iron Man that he chose to fight him when the world was ending. Reed Richards was considered a wanted terrorist. The leaders of the world sold the earth to Thanos and let him destroy the Wakanda. The animosity, the hate, the stakes, were much more important than during Civil Wars. There was no possible return. if nothing was ignored, It's totally illogical that Strange, Iron Man, Reed Richards... were still considered heroes after Secret Wars.

My thoughts exactly, and well stated.

[Wolverine12]

Not very familiar at all! I was definitely planning to read Millar's Ultimates first in any case, as besides giving useful background on the universe, it seems to be one of the more talked about and influential things Marvel has published in recent decades. Good to have that instinct confirmed.

Its a great run. It's not necessary to understand Hickman's run later but if you like Millar's Ultimates you should check out his run on Ultimate X-Men as well. Also Ultimate Fantastic Four is pretty good for the first few arcs and will give some good background for your later readings.

[Snoop Dogg]

Millar/Hitch Ultimates 2 is one of the best Marvel stories of all time don't @ me

[CRaymond]

Millar/Hitch Ultimates 2 is one of the best Marvel stories of all time don't @ me

Co-signed.

[jackolover]

The first issue references a ton of the events from Infinity, specifically the invasion of Wakanda by the Black Order and they followed up what happened to Shuri at the end of New Avengers #24 by showing that she had been encased in amber by Thane.

Thanks for the references, but I couldn’t find any hint Sheri was encased in Amber by Thane in New Avengers #24, just the statement “ I offer you a painful death or a shameful death”. But no result of Shuri’s last fight with the Order.

[JKtheMac]

Thanks for the references, but I couldn’t find any hint Sheri was encased in Amber by Thane in New Avengers #24, just the statement “ I offer you a painful death or a shameful death”. But no result of Shuri’s last fight with the Order.

Avengers #24 doesnt show the ultimate fate of Shuri. Coates is writing that tale. Indeed it is shown in World of Wakanda #4 that the nation believes Shuri is dead, and that she was reconciled with T'challa at the last. Political Spin to keep the nation together. It wasn't a reconciliation so much as an acceptance of roles.

The second issue has a page dedicated to what happens, but it isn't Ta-Nehisi Coates style to be specific in the text, he is more of a poetic writer. He likes to leave the artist with part of the workload. T'Challa is standing at the feet of the frozen Shuri, frozen in mid action in an amber light or substance and he says this:

By the hand of Thane, we shackled the Black Order.
They escaped. Shattered a nation.
By a counterfeit power, the prisoner became the jailer.
And Queen Shuri did not live.
And Queen Shuri did not die.

Later in the run he is more explicit.

In fact, I had left her to something far worse.
The living death was first deployed to stop the Black Order. How poetic that they would turn it back upon us.
But this rendition was different, an improvement upon the bonds that had held Thanos.
I tried to break through. It had been so easy for Maximus the Mad. And yet all my theories and experiments came to nothing.
For months I despaired, knowing I had, in my vain grandiosity, left my own blood to this terribleness.
It was in this pit of gloom that I saw it: I was considering Shuri as if she were right there. But what if Shuri, in some real sense, was not there at all?"

Now this is open to a little interpretation. It appears to suggest that the off panel fate of Shuri was being placed in what some issues refer to as a 'living death'. The clear implication is that the Black Order used a replica of Thane's powers to freeze Shuri. The reason Coates has this happen is to develop the idea that Shuri is in a position where she can gain wisdom from the dead while not actually being dead.

Note the references to Thane, Thanos and the Black Order being placed in Amber, Maximus releasing them, the moment of T'Challa and Shuri's parting - all acknowledgements that the New Avengers timeline stands.

Indeed World of Wakanda is set across the whole time period from before to after Secret Wars. It has the Namor attack, the Thanos attack and explains that there needed to be a rebuilding of the nation. The main characters are conveniently in foreign lands during the last, so it veils some of the more tricky details of exactly how the lions share of Wakanda's population died and came back to life.

That is probably the part that people don't have a clear memory of. How they died and exactly when. It would be exceptionally cruel of Reed et al to bring them back as resurrected people divorced from their past. We have to trust it was a magical fudge. That things are a little different in this new universe. That was what T'Challa used the stone for in Secret Wars to get his nation back. Reality was realigned.

[Mike_Murdock]

Thanks for the references, but I couldn’t find any hint Sheri was encased in Amber by Thane in New Avengers #24, just the statement “ I offer you a painful death or a shameful death”. But no result of Shuri’s last fight with the Order.

Right. Her fate was unresolved and then Black Panther #1 showed the resolution. I mean, the mere fact that it referenced Thane references Hickman since the character was invented in his run.