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  1. #151
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Wolverine does have a history of killing people, and he did end up as buddies with Cap. So lethal force isn't necessarily a deal breaker.

    But beyond that, we haven't seem the book yet. This group might largely target monster and such rather than people.
    Wolverine also went a very large stint where he was never shown killing humans in his early days and he wasn't even recognized as being able to join the Avengers, per Captain America, until Bendis.

    Not having seen the book is another reason I'm not all for the Savage Avengers. The title could suck. No need to shuffle him off the main team for an unknown. I just hope Marvel leaves him away from there and keeps him on the main squad.




    EDIT:

    My primary point is....Blade isn't fully established yet. He has a long history but said history hasn't muttled to much in any direction. Because of that the character still has potential to be a major player for boarder audiences if handled the right way. Being on the Main Avenger team only helps that cause.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 02-17-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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  2. #152
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Wolverine also went a very large stint where he was never shown killing humans in his early days and he wasn't even recognized as being able to join the Avengers, per Captain America, until Bendis.

    Not having seen the book is another reason I'm not all for the Savage Avengers. The title could suck. No need to shuffle him off the main team for an unknown. I just hope Marvel leaves him away from there and keeps him on the main squad.




    EDIT:

    My primary point is....Blade isn't fully established yet. He has a long history but said history hasn't muttled to much in any direction. Because of that the character still has potential to be a major player for boarder audiences if handled the right way. Being on the Main Avenger team only helps that cause.
    Steve has sort of softened his stance since then. Heck, he championed Deadpool to be an Avenger in recent years.

    BUt I don't disagree that being on the main Avengers team would do more for him than being in just about any other book. I'm merely saying I believe he's in some sort of a rotating position and he'll be cycled out once the vamp story arc ends. Similar to how Strange was cycled out at the end of the first story arc. I of course could be 100% wrong about that.

    But IF he does end up rotating out of the main Avengers team, being on the Savage Avengers works.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Wolverine also went a very large stint where he was never shown killing humans in his early days and he wasn't even recognized as being able to join the Avengers, per Captain America, until Bendis.

    Not having seen the book is another reason I'm not all for the Savage Avengers. The title could suck. No need to shuffle him off the main team for an unknown. I just hope Marvel leaves him away from there and keeps him on the main squad.




    EDIT:

    My primary point is....Blade isn't fully established yet. He has a long history but said history hasn't muttled to much in any direction. Because of that the character still has potential to be a major player for boarder audiences if handled the right way. Being on the Main Avenger team only helps that cause.
    Cap had a big problem with Wolverine and the X-Men in general at the time because the team had a known enemy, and mass murderer, Magneto, was made a member.

    On SAVAGE AVENGERS, it looks like it'll be an interesting book. I'm under the impression it's a miniseries, not ongoing.

  4. #154
    Astonishing Member Steroid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The One and Only View Post
    Cap had a big problem with Wolverine and the X-Men in general at the time because the team had a known enemy, and mass murderer, Magneto, was made a member.

    On SAVAGE AVENGERS, it looks like it'll be an interesting book. I'm under the impression it's a miniseries, not ongoing.
    Duggan confirmed on Twitter that it's an ongoing.

  5. #155
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    I just can't take the book seriously with Punisher on the team so out of place. He's a solo character that should be hunting down no names (people Marvel will actually let him kill)
    The J-man

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    They seen more use on there own or as side features in some one else's title. As of yet do they get to rub noses with Major characters on the regular.

    Punisher isn't best buds with Cap, Iron Man or anyone else. Blade has the potential to establish those relationships due to his stance, is all I'm saying. His non-kill humans policy leaves the door open to be use more in various ways. Like children's cartoons, books, and tv shows. As a main star, not as a one off who gets shunted back into a corner.

    I just feel leaning him to hard in the Savage Avengers route would be a mistake long term for the character. It be a non-issue if there where more interesting Original Black Males at Marvel.
    Most characters in the Marvel universe don't have an issue with killing humans as long as it can be justified. Steve and Tony have killed humans in their comics and movies. Punisher and Elektra were co-leads in season 2 of Daredevil and Punisher has three films, one video game and a t.v series to his name. Killing humans doesn't seem to be a detriment to character usage at all. If we looked at the things stopping Blade from being used regularly, that he occasionally kills humans as well as vampires wouldn't even make the top 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Wolverine also went a very large stint where he was never shown killing humans in his early days and he wasn't even recognized as being able to join the Avengers, per Captain America, until Bendis.

    Not having seen the book is another reason I'm not all for the Savage Avengers. The title could suck. No need to shuffle him off the main team for an unknown. I just hope Marvel leaves him away from there and keeps him on the main squad.




    EDIT:

    My primary point is....Blade isn't fully established yet. He has a long history but said history hasn't muttled to much in any direction. Because of that the character still has potential to be a major player for boarder audiences if handled the right way. Being on the Main Avenger team only helps that cause.
    The X-Men had much stronger stock by the time Logan joined the Avengers. When he first made the team, they needed him more than he needed them. Being an Avenger didn't mean what it does today when Bendis put Logan on the team. Logan's popularity and use didn't diminish when he started killing people either.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 02-17-2019 at 11:18 PM.

  7. #157
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Most characters in the Marvel universe don't have an issue with killing humans as long as it can be justified. Steve and Tony have killed humans in their comics and movies. Punisher and Elektra were co-leads in season 2 of Daredevil and Punisher has three films, one video game and a t.v series to his name. Killing humans doesn't seem to be a detriment to character usage at all. If we looked at the things stopping Blade from being used regularly, that he occasionally kills humans as well as vampires wouldn't even make the top 20.
    Thats not really my point though. Its why give them another reason not to use him.

    If people want Blade to grow in popularity he needs to fit in more situations than he does currently. Wolverine and Blade aren't the same. Wolverine moves books off of shelves on the regular. As dumb as it is it gives him an immunity to most things other characters have to go through. Blade isn't there yet, but he could be. Thats all Im saying.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 02-18-2019 at 01:54 AM.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Thats not really my point though. Its why give them another reason not to use him.

    If people want Blade to grow in popularity he needs to fit in more situations than he does currently. Wolverine and Blade aren't the same. Wolverine moves books off of shelves on the regular. As dumb as it is it gives him an immunity to most things other characters have to go through. Blade isn't there yet, but he could be. Thats all Im saying.
    Again, this is assuming him killing humans is a reason he wouldn't be used more. As I and others have pointed out, there are many characters who kill humans and are used far more frequently than Blade. Including a-listers like Captain America and Iron Man. You're arguing against a non-existent problem. He doesn't kill humans now and he still has sparodic appearances compared to characters that do kill them.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    I just can't take the book seriously with Punisher on the team so out of place. He's a solo character that should be hunting down no names (people Marvel will actually let him kill)
    Punisher has worked with Elektra, Venom, and Wolverine in the past.

    I've always felt like Frank has a complicated relationship with the superhero community. On the one hand, he thinks they're hypocrites who can't see the larger picture.

    On the other hand, Frank wants approval from the superhero community. It's why he was so happy to work for HydraCap, because someone he so very respected was telling him how right he was.

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Thats not really my point though. Its why give them another reason not to use him.

    If people want Blade to grow in popularity he needs to fit in more situations than he does currently. Wolverine and Blade aren't the same. Wolverine moves books off of shelves on the regular. As dumb as it is it gives him an immunity to most things other characters have to go through. Blade isn't there yet, but he could be. Thats all Im saying.
    the most important part is the "he could be." not disagreeing. just piggybacking off of your point. all the ingredients that made Wolverine popular are currently there. Captain America killed Baron Blood; chopped his head clean off. and he has worked plenty with Union Jack; a famous vampire hunter. he also dated Spitfire; who Cap served with. Blade has sooo much backstory to work with. and he was successful in live-action. it's weird that he's not more popular. but i'm glad that he isn't. that's what ends up doing the most damage to characters...overuse. weird stuff starts happening to them like getting a gun hand. what Blade needs to do is branch out to targeting all supernatural villains or, at least, more variety than vamps. because vampires are just people with fangs. with the exception of Colonel Mustard (or whatever that new one is called), they aren't that visually interesting either. he needs a long term rogues gallery and more than just Dracula. and what would draw me in most is a solicit naming a villain that i actually recognize. i know that i say it a lot but he should be facing the occultist wing of Hydra; namely Baron Strucker. or Gorgon. or how about Emplate?

    humor me. what interests you more? a picture of Blade fighting a horde of vampires or him sword-to-sword with the Gorgon?
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 02-19-2019 at 06:20 AM.

  11. #161
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Your right Blade could be on the level of Wolverine. But his chances go severely down if he is seen as just serial killer/assassin/savage verse's a monster hunter and/or hero.

    I mean it's not like America has a history with Black men being projected as savage killers or anything. There is no way at all that a perception of Blade falling in that category could give a company like... I don't know...DISNEY another reason to not promote him in their theme parks, their kid friendly television programs, or in their group merchandising efforts. So glad that this such a non-issue that we don't have to worry about with this character. lol

    #TheSarcasmIsStrongWithThisOne
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 02-19-2019 at 06:51 AM.
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Your right Blade could be on the level of Wolverine. But his chances go severely down if he is seen as just serial killer/assassin/savage verse's a monster hunter and/or hero.

    I mean it's not like America has a history with Black men being projected as savage killers or anything. There is no way at all that a perception of Blade falling in that category could give a company like... I don't know...DISNEY another reason to not promote him in their theme parks, their kid friendly television programs, or in their group merchandising efforts. So glad that this such a non-issue that we don't have to worry about with this character. lol

    #TheSarcasmIsStrongWithThisOne
    I get the point but just don't understand how it applies to the book in question. Savage Avengers isn't x-force. It's a group of heroes that are fighting a magical threat in Japan.

  13. #163
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks View Post
    I get the point but just don't understand how it applies to the book in question. Savage Avengers isn't x-force. It's a group of heroes that are fighting a magical threat in Japan.
    We don't know what Savage Avengers really is at this point. What we do no by all appearances with the character's involved it looks like a murder squad due to the majority of members being known mostly as murderers. (Not All) Just by association regardless of how the book plays out the characters will be seen as murderers.

    What we also know is that Blade has relatively low appearances for a character who has not been around for that long. What we also know that like it or not how the characters are being portrayed today is the dye that they will be painted with to larger audiences in the current point in history and possibly moving forward.( See Carol Danvers) Some characters, like Wolverine, can literally get away with murder 1000 times over while relatively unknowns like Blade cannot. Even with Blade's 90's movies most people are still unaware that Blade is a comic book character let alone that he is a Marvel character. If Blade is played correctly today when the time comes he could be the next Wolverine to the boarder non-comic audience. If mishandled he will get shuffled into background again with reason's that would be hard to refute by a company like Disney.

    I just feel if fans of the character are going to push anything they should keep pushing Blade as a main-stay in the main Avenger book.
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Your right Blade could be on the level of Wolverine. But his chances go severely down if he is seen as just serial killer/assassin/savage verse's a monster hunter and/or hero.

    I mean it's not like America has a history with Black men being projected as savage killers or anything. There is no way at all that a perception of Blade falling in that category could give a company like... I don't know...DISNEY another reason to not promote him in their theme parks, their kid friendly television programs, or in their group merchandising efforts. So glad that this such a non-issue that we don't have to worry about with this character. lol

    #TheSarcasmIsStrongWithThisOne
    This is a bit weird that you are trying to make this an issue. Doctor Voodoo is on this team and he's black. And Blade made his way as a character by working with the if Scary Black Man tropes. No one had a problem with him because he was still cool, intelligent, and clearly in control of the situations around him.

    Blade hasn't been as marketed by Disney because he's for an adult audience. Then you have issues with casting him and finding a way to integrate him into the MCU. And really, that isn't a problem with him so much as trying to make vampires work.

  15. #165
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    This is a bit weird that you are trying to make this an issue. Doctor Voodoo is on this team and he's black. And Blade made his way as a character by working with the if Scary Black Man tropes. No one had a problem with him because he was still cool, intelligent, and clearly in control of the situations around him.

    Blade hasn't been as marketed by Disney because he's for an adult audience. Then you have issues with casting him and finding a way to integrate him into the MCU. And really, that isn't a problem with him so much as trying to make vampires work.
    Would you like to go into detail of what "Scary Black Man" tropes currently are and how they are/were applied to Blade?

    And then follow that up with how it's not a problem?

    I'll wait.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 02-19-2019 at 07:30 AM.
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