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  1. #121
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    The moon does have an area that has breathable air, so this could actually work.
    Yes, and Ka-Zar can hold his breath and not freeze to death on the trip to the moon -- after he's been fired off a launch pad in Wakanda in nothing but his loin cloth. Good thing his loin cloth isn't flammable and defies windshear.
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  2. #122
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Thor13 View Post
    If I were setting up an Agents of Wakanda title I'd be going for a more diverse and global equivalent of what SHIELD once was.
    We started with a pretty good selection of characters. I'm not necessarily a big fan of all of the inclusions, but I appreciate what Aaron is going for.

    I said as much in an earlier post, but I'd be adding Thunderball (who has interacted with T'Challa somewhat recently and is a capable scientist), Nightshade (now wearing the Nighthawk armor but using the Nightshade codename, now that we've got a Nighthawk in the Squadron, plus it's a cooler codename anyway), Battlestar (recommended by John Walker, who declines the offer to join), Cardiac (personally recruited by T'Challa, who admires his intelligence and dedication to help others), Druid (a freelance magic user with a history among Avengers & Secret Warriors), Misty Knight & Colleen Wing (reserve members when they're not busy running operations back in NYC) and I'd have Shang-Chi + Mockingbird be inducted into the fold too.

    As for Wasp, I'd promote her to the Avengers core team OR move her over to a New Avengers title once No Road Home wraps, joining Spectrum, Scarlet Witch, Wonder Man etc. I think Janet is more than deserving of a bigger role than playing second fiddle to the Avengers, and she'd likely overshadow the Agents of Wakanda.
    I honestly think Janet is fine where she is at on Agents of Wakanda. Likely, with her appearing to be assisting Okoye as second in command to her, would likely lead to more development. And honestly a core team of 8 with rotating members (similar to how JA had the Avengers roster set up) no one person is going to overshadow another. This is just a fun team that can tell globetrotting adventures

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Thank you for calling my posts laughable.

    But even by your personal definition of comics, it still fails. I didn't find it fun at all. I found it stupid.

    Good fiction follows its own internal logic. Ever heard of the phrase, "suspension of disbelief?" Every heard of the phrase "shared universe?" How about "world outside your window"? Again, this books fails -- in all those cases.
    No.

    You're isolating one specific incident - a savage operating in a stealth mission under the ocean - as being somehow unbelievable in a comic that has something outrageous on every single page.

    There's nothing about Ka-Zar's abilities in this issue that requires any more of a suspension of disbelief than believing that a team of superpowered people are operating out of the hollowed-out body of a dead Celestial. A team of superpowered people, by the way, that now involves a talking gorilla, a Living Vampire, and a werewolf as part of their B squad or ground team. And whose leader is being privately counseled by an ancient Norse God.

    Ka-Zar has lived his entire life - and thrived - in one of the most hostile environments on the planet. He can survive a dip in the ocean just fine. If anything, Ka-Zar's reconnaissance mission is one of the least crazy aspects of this issue.

    You seem to think that having Ka-Zar get in and out of Atlantis so easy is insulting to Atlanteans. But it isn't. Because Atlanteans aren't real. There's no one to insult. You don't need to be offended on their behalf. Aaron's just giving Ka-Zar a cool moment to show that even though he's just a guy in a loin cloth, he shouldn't be underestimated.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    No.

    You're isolating one specific incident - a savage operating in a stealth mission under the ocean - as being somehow unbelievable in a comic that has something outrageous on every single page.

    There's nothing about Ka-Zar's abilities in this issue that requires any more of a suspension of disbelief than believing that a team of superpowered people are operating out of the hollowed-out body of a dead Celestial. A team of superpowered people, by the way, that now involves a talking gorilla, a Living Vampire, and a werewolf as part of their B squad or ground team. And whose leader is being privately counseled by an ancient Norse God.

    Ka-Zar has lived his entire life - and thrived - in one of the most hostile environments on the planet. He can survive a dip in the ocean just fine. If anything, Ka-Zar's reconnaissance mission is one of the least crazy aspects of this issue.

    You seem to think that having Ka-Zar get in and out of Atlantis so easy is insulting to Atlanteans. But it isn't. Because Atlanteans aren't real. There's no one to insult. You don't need to be offended on their behalf. Aaron's just giving Ka-Zar a cool moment to show that even though he's just a guy in a loin cloth, he shouldn't be underestimated.
    The problem with those other examples is that their other worldliness has been long established. Thor, for instance, has been a God with superhuman abilities for decades now.

    There are different extents to which suspension of disbelief can be applied. Ka-zar is a baseline human, who lacks the ability to breathe underwater. And though he is a bad ass, his survival in the Savage Land is like a mouse surviving in a human's house. With enough cunning, it can be done, but we know who'd win in a fight

    Hell, Ka-zar's survival in the Savage Land isn't that unique, frankly. There are entire tribes of humans in the Savage Land who do the same thing he does, every day. And Ka-zar w created before we knew that raptors were bad asses

  5. #125
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    And can we please tall about how Man Wolf didn't even need a breathing mask in space? Has he been able to not die in space before?

    Also, I'm trying to figure out just how the plan to use Morbius works: why is anyone deciding that this is a good plan now? And how is this not going to just make it harder for normal vampires to find food? In Domino, Morbius even says that he worries about how he'll find blood if this plan succeeds.

    And honestly? I just have a feeling that Dracula isn't even the real problem here. I think it's the Shadow Colonel and that's why Draculais trying to bolster his own vampires.

  6. #126
    Incredible Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    And can we please tall about how Man Wolf didn't even need a breathing mask in space? Has he been able to not die in space before?
    Jameson isn't a traditional werewolf. His wolf form is the physical manifestation of a deity from another universe, the Stargod. While he might have never been shown to be running around in space without gear before, I think given the nature of his powers it's not too much of a stretch.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    No.
    I'm sorry you haven't heard of those phrases. But you are online. Google them. They are pertinent to my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    You're isolating one specific incident - a savage operating in a stealth mission under the ocean - as being somehow unbelievable in a comic that has something outrageous on every single page.
    So what? I am allowed to talk about one incident, or a portion of a book. Just because I don't discuss every page, it doesn't invalidate the part I'm talking about. FYI, there was plenty of the comic I found unbelievable and eye rolling, but I get to choose what I spend my time on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    There's nothing about Ka-Zar's abilities in this issue that requires any more of a suspension of disbelief than believing that a team of superpowered people are operating out of the hollowed-out body of a dead Celestial. A team of superpowered people, by the way, that now involves a talking gorilla, a Living Vampire, and a werewolf as part of their B squad or ground team. And whose leader is being privately counseled by an ancient Norse God.
    ??? I thought you hadn't heard of the phrase "suspension of disbelief?" Regardless, I disagree and that's a false equivalency. Just because I don't talk about the whole book, it doesn't invalidate the portion I am talking about. Besides, the talking gorilla, the living vampire the werewolf and living in dead Celestials have all been established many times over decades. They fit this particular comic universe's established history and internal logic. The fact that we (fans and writers and editors alike) have designations such as 'peak human' and super human tells us that there are limitations on the characters, which help set up the boundaries for suspension of disbelief. Ka-Zar is NOT super-human. If he starts doing super-human stuff, then it breaks my suspension of disbelief.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Ka-Zar has lived his entire life - and thrived - in one of the most hostile environments on the planet. He can survive a dip in the ocean just fine. If anything, Ka-Zar's reconnaissance mission is one of the least crazy aspects of this issue.
    I'm sorry, when it comes to hostile environments: Bottom of the ocean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jungle. Plenty of normal human beings live in a jungle, yes, even in the Savage Land. While NO normal human beings live at the bottom of the ocean. We aren't talking about a "dip in the ocean." I never said Ka-zar can't swim or take a bath. If you don't understand what makes the ocean THE most hostile environment on the planet, then do some reading / googling. There's an ongoing debate on whether the ocean depths or space is more hostile. And again, what happens in the rest of the issue, believable or not, has no bearing on the one event that I chose to talk about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    You seem to think that having Ka-Zar get in and out of Atlantis so easy is insulting to Atlanteans. But it isn't. Because Atlanteans aren't real. There's no one to insult. You don't need to be offended on their behalf. Aaron's just giving Ka-Zar a cool moment to show that even though he's just a guy in a loin cloth, he shouldn't be underestimated.
    This is the second time you've talked about me personally. Please refrain from doing so again. I have no idea why you think can dictate what I should feel and how I should post, but you have no rights over me, and no authority here.

    Well, at least we can agree that Aaron is giving Ka-Zar a "cool" moment at the expense of characters that I care for. And that is my main complaint. Writers shouldn't job out other characters to make their favorites look better. As for whether or not I should be enthusiastic about unreal characters our not, that's none of your business, and not your call. You do your fannish thing your way, and I'll do my fannish thing my way.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    The problem with those other examples is that their other worldliness has been long established. Thor, for instance, has been a God with superhuman abilities for decades now.

    There are different extents to which suspension of disbelief can be applied. Ka-zar is a baseline human, who lacks the ability to breathe underwater. And though he is a bad ass, his survival in the Savage Land is like a mouse surviving in a human's house. With enough cunning, it can be done, but we know who'd win in a fight

    Hell, Ka-zar's survival in the Savage Land isn't that unique, frankly. There are entire tribes of humans in the Savage Land who do the same thing he does, every day. And Ka-zar w created before we knew that raptors were bad asses
    Exactly. Thank you.
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  8. #128
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    It just seems sort of knit-picky to harp on the Ka-Zar thing when there's so much here to like. I mean, I'm sorry, but we have Broo! Broo is awesome!

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    It just seems sort of knit-picky to harp on the Ka-Zar thing when there's so much here to like. I mean, I'm sorry, but we have Broo! Broo is awesome!
    So, I should stop talking about what I'm interested in, because you think it is knit picky?

    As I said before, I don't think there's as much to like here. But you are free to talk about whatever you like, including Broo.
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  10. #130
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    I wonder if the Ka-Zar thing will get a hasty patch like She-Hulk did.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    It just seems sort of knit-picky to harp on the Ka-Zar thing when there's so much here to like. I mean, I'm sorry, but we have Broo! Broo is awesome!
    To be clear, I like the idea of the Avengers having a support staff. And some characters do make logical sense.

    The problem I have is that most of them are pet characters that Jason just likes to write, instead of characters who compliment the stories

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I wonder if the Ka-Zar thing will get a hasty patch like She-Hulk did.
    What was the hasty patch?
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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    To be clear, I like the idea of the Avengers having a support staff. And some characters do make logical sense.

    The problem I have is that most of them are pet characters that Jason just likes to write, instead of characters who compliment the stories
    But don't most writers do this? Bendis definitely did, Claremont did, and we all know Moon Knight has only survived based on author goodwill.

    Like I said, these are characters that many writers have loved for a very long time. There's nothing wrong with them wanting to be used, especially when it comes to more obscure characters like Broo and Morbius.

    I know Morbius has a movie coming out, but I think no one has much faith in it because...well, seriously, it's a Morbius movie. Some producer must really like Morbius for that one to work.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    But don't most writers do this? Bendis definitely did, Claremont did, and we all know Moon Knight has only survived based on author goodwill.

    Like I said, these are characters that many writers have loved for a very long time. There's nothing wrong with them wanting to be used, especially when it comes to more obscure characters like Broo and Morbius.

    I know Morbius has a movie coming out, but I think no one has much faith in it because...well, seriously, it's a Morbius movie. Some producer must really like Morbius for that one to work.
    'Bendis did it' isn't a defense, it's an attack

    I want good, logical story telling. Not writers piddling around with their pet faves and doing nothing. Hell, that was Bendis' entire damn run.

    I like fanfiction. I read fanfiction. But professional comics ought to be held to professional standards

  15. #135
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    What was the hasty patch?
    When Jen first showed up in the Avengers run, she looked like this:

    Problem was, Jen already solved most of her post-Secret Empire problems in the last couple of issue in her own book or at least enough that it didn't justify this trying to keep control or hulking out a dumb hulk, with her terrified of transforming. So after the whole Celestial thing we got this:


    For the record, there are still many flaws to this; despite the proclamation that she's keeping under control, she's still being tutored by Black Panther in controlling herself under stress when she has never needed that sort of thing from anyone, so I presume Aaron is trying to do his original plan for her while trying to juggle it with her immediate past.

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