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  1. #181
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Ka-Zar isn't just a pulp hero -- he's a specific kind. He's a Jungle Lord. He doesn't travel much, AFAIK, but I could be wrong -- maybe to NYC / civilization. You should also consider, this Ka-Zar isn't an original Golden Age pulp hero. He's a 1960s revision of a pulp hero, of Tarzan specifically, in an era when colonialism wasn't seen as a good thing.

    But again, if he's the avatar of pulp heroes, a survivial specialist ANYWHERE, I'm waiting for anyone to show me all these exotic, hostile environments that he's survived, other than the Savage Land.


    Though ... does it really make sense that T'challa is going to recruit an archetype of "Colonialism is GREAT" for the Agents of Wakanda?
    Sorry this argument makes no sense. Tarzan is a pulp hero. He’s an englishman in an exotic location bringing his inate superiority to Africa even though he is not educated.

  2. #182
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    However if you want to call a character xenophobic I would suggest you look beyond one era of comics that were extremely prejudiced towards japanese people before deciding that the character is in fact xenophobic and not actually used to spread war propaganda especially since Namor's character did not in fact ever start out that way. You can take any character and find something that someone has written at some point that is wrong, and this is especially true of Namor since he has been around since the start of comics.
    Bear in mind I am not calling a fictional character xenophobic, I am referring to the position Aaron has placed him. He has positioned him as an unknowable other. A threat from a huge and mostly invisible race from under the vast ocean.

    Your summary is excellent btw, but this element of the inscrutable underwater kingdom is a direct analogy for Asia. There is a similarity to orientalism in the portrayal. Exotic maidens and warlike leaders with a tangible notion of otherness. Sudden shifts in motive that feel arbitrary, which play to fears over who the west’s allies and enemies are in the far east.

    See for example this depiction of the leader of the Island of Mu from Namora #1 1948. Described as "proud warlike people".

    orientalism.jpg

    (I wonder which nearby artist or close personal friend was chosen for the model of this character?)

    It always feels like fandom seeks to ignore anything problematic. Almost as if the accusations themselves could rip away the thing they love. Nobody here especially me is saying Namor is not a great character or should not be in modern comics. I am simply explaining from my perspective what Aaron is doing and why he is doing it.

    Just as Aaron drew a direct analogy between Trump and Agger in Thor this month, he is also exploring the resurgence of anti-eastern sentiment in US politics. Both of these are being done in playful ways, but these ideas are underlying his story.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 01-14-2019 at 03:42 AM.

  3. #183
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    Interestingly, Namor is one of Cap's oldest allies from WW2. And you have the Shadow Colonel literally looking like a freaking Nazi.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=marv...OTAzPAofHAAdEM

    And I just noticed this, but the guy has a baby Man-Thing with him. He seems to be using the baby Man-Thing to create stakes for his machine gun. And the little thing seems chained to his shoulder.

    Now, is this our Man-Thing or is this another one? We know there's more than the one.

  4. #184
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Well, t’challa must have some kind of clout if he can have Odin as one of his agents- I wonder how Thor will feel about that? Moreover, I wonder how the avengers will feel about t’challa’s agents in general? How does ka-zar survive the depths of the ocean with no protective gear? I think gorilla man and broo will be fun to watch.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    Well, t’challa must have some kind of clout if he can have Odin as one of his agents- I wonder how Thor will feel about that? Moreover, I wonder how the avengers will feel about t’challa’s agents in general? How does ka-zar survive the depths of the ocean with no protective gear? I think gorilla man and broo will be fun to watch.
    Broo is known to the Avengers. Tony Stark likes him and vouched for him. He's a good kid and he's fucking adorable.

    Gorilla Man and Ka-Zar are odd choices, but I can't see anyone not liking them or wanting them gone.

    Honestly, none of the choices are very controversial. Tge only one anyone seemed to have trouble with was Morbius and he's probably not going to stick around anyways. Plus, well, he's not got the best reputation.

    Odin is the odd choice. I think Thor would be pissed and this is where the cracks would begin. BP has and will conine to keep secrets. BP was even considering bringing Loki in. Now, we know that this wouldn't be an awful idea, but Thor hates Loki and is only now starting to heal from his betrayals.

    Plus, Loki is simply dangerous. He is likely to double cross you and BP knows this. This tells me that T'Challa could bite off more than he could chew.

  6. #186
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    When was it mentioned that T'Challa was considering Loki? I'm not around the issue and I don't recall that?

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    When was it mentioned that T'Challa was considering Loki? I'm not around the issue and I don't recall that?
    It was in the Thor before the last one, in the beginning.

  8. #188
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    It was in the Thor before the last one, in the beginning.
    Was it serious consideration or just an off handily contemplating it

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Was it serious consideration or just an off handily contemplating it
    We don't really know.

    T'Challa wouldn't be the first. Hank Pym had asked him-the original-Loki to join the Avengers years ago.

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