Avengers #12 (spoilers)

[Rosebunse]

'Bendis did it' isn't a defense, it's an attack

I want good, logical story telling. Not writers piddling around with their pet faves and doing nothing. Hell, that was Bendis' entire damn run.

I like fanfiction. I read fanfiction. But professional comics ought to be held to professional standards

But what does this mean? Writers use characters they don't like and can't think of a plan for?

[Mike_Murdock]

It wasn't a hasty patch at all, though. By the time we got to that scene, it had been hinted for quite a while that there was something more and something connected to what was going on.

Post-Civil War II, btw, not post-Secret Empire.

[LordUltimus]

It wasn't a hasty patch at all, though. By the time we got to that scene, it had been hinted for quite a while that there was something more and something connected to what was going on.

Post-Civil War II, btw, not post-Secret Empire.

Still doesn't change the fact that Jen was back as her normal green self and now she's Bruce with boobs, and it took eight issues until we explained it, and the explanation contradicts what the series set up before.

Thanks for correcting me on the CWII thing, though, that was my bad.

[Rosebunse]

I just don't think it's bad writing so much as a necessity of the medium if writers sort of want to do their own thing.

A necessary evil.

Also, if the vampires do get a new leader like Blade or Morbius, two people who would want to take the vampires in a different direction, it would sort of run parallel to what Aaron is doing in other parts of the book, especially with Black Panther trying to up Wakanda's cred.

[Ezyo1000]

To me, Agents of Wakanda is a fun way to bring in heroes stuck in Limbo or have unique looks or powers ball under ba banner to tell globetrotting adventures in. It's a good thing especially since I have seen posters here talk about how marvel should pull out Characters on Limbo or without books to go home to, but when an opportunity arises people don't like it? Not saying people have to love it but at least support the idea and ask for more opportunities for these heroes to make returns.

My only nitpick with it is that Agent's of Wakanda don't have enough actual Wakandans on the team, if Aaron grabbed another Wakandan (or Kasper at least) then Im good. Okoye being the director is brilliant

[Prof. Warren]

I like fanfiction. I read fanfiction. But professional comics ought to be held to professional standards

Calling something they don't like "fan-fiction" is the perennial, lazy, no effort, go-to criticism for many fans. Has been that way forever. It's always a meaningless jab.

If it's being published by Marvel, or DC, or Boom, or Dark Horse, or any other publisher, it's meeting the full criteria of being professional work.

[Rosebunse]

To me, Agents of Wakanda is a fun way to bring in heroes stuck in Limbo or have unique looks or powers ball under ba banner to tell globetrotting adventures in. It's a good thing especially since I have seen posters here talk about how marvel should pull out Characters on Limbo or without books to go home to, but when an opportunity arises people don't like it? Not saying people have to love it but at least support the idea and ask for more opportunities for these heroes to make returns.

My only nitpick with it is that Agent's of Wakanda don't have enough actual Wakandans on the team, if Aaron grabbed another Wakandan (or Kasper at least) then Im good. Okoye being the director is brilliant

How many Wakandan characters are free right now? I guess he could just make a few or use more movie characters. Though I do have to admit, Okoye is way better than I thought she would be! She's great and we should all enjoy her introduction into the MU proper.

[Prof. Warren]

For the record, there are still many flaws to this; despite the proclamation that she's keeping under control, she's still being tutored by Black Panther in controlling herself under stress when she has never needed that sort of thing from anyone, so I presume Aaron is trying to do his original plan for her while trying to juggle it with her immediate past.

Jen needs it now as her exposure to the Celestials has altered her powers.

Things are different for Jen now so she's in uncharted territory.

[Prof. Warren]

Still doesn't change the fact that Jen was back as her normal green self and now she's Bruce with boobs, and it took eight issues until we explained it, and the explanation contradicts what the series set up before.

It doesn't contradict what went before but instead explained why things are different for Jen now and why her powers and persona have changed.

[Rosebunse]

Calling something they don't like "fan-fiction" is the perennial, lazy, no effort, go-to criticism for many fans. Has been that way forever. It's always a meaningless jab.

If it's being published by Marvel, or DC, or Boom, or Dark Horse, or any other publisher, it's meeting the full criteria of being professional work.

Also, as fan of fanfiction, a lot of fanfiction is really well done.

[Ezyo1000]

How many Wakandan characters are free right now? I guess he could just make a few or use more movie characters. Though I do have to admit, Okoye is way better than I thought she would be! She's great and we should all enjoy her introduction into the MU proper.

quite a few actually, they usually get lost in Limbo but there are some. Okoye vanished for nearly 20 years then showed up randomly (and looking strikingly similar to Danai too) but there are others. I would say Kasper would be the best fit. Taku could work, or if Aaron wanted to how recent, Akili is a hatute zeraze that could fit in.

But yeah I'm stoked for Okoye, she is fast becoming T'Challas ride or die right hand (just like she was in Priests BP run)

[Mr MajestiK]

quite a few actually, they usually get lost in Limbo but there are some. Okoye vanished for nearly 20 years then showed up randomly (and looking strikingly similar to Danai too) but there are others. I would say Kasper would be the best fit. Taku could work, or if Aaron wanted to how recent, Akili is a hatute zeraze that could fit in.

But yeah I'm stoked for Okoye, she is fast becoming T'Challas ride or die right hand (just like she was in Priests BP run)

Sofija, needs to be in the mix too.

[Reviresco]

When Jen first showed up in the Avengers run, she looked like this:


Problem was, Jen already solved most of her post-Secret Empire problems in the last couple of issue in her own book or at least enough that it didn't justify this trying to keep control or hulking out a dumb hulk, with her terrified of transforming. So after the whole Celestial thing we got this:


For the record, there are still many flaws to this; despite the proclamation that she's keeping under control, she's still being tutored by Black Panther in controlling herself under stress when she has never needed that sort of thing from anyone, so I presume Aaron is trying to do his original plan for her while trying to juggle it with her immediate past.

Thank you for the scans and explanation. Plenty to think about.

And holy cow that Thor is awful.

[LordUltimus]

Jen needs it now as her exposure to the Celestials has altered her powers.

Things are different for Jen now so she's in uncharted territory.

It doesn't contradict what went before but instead explained why things are different for Jen now and why her powers and persona have changed.

Except as shown, her powers were different before she got exposed to the Celestials. And it doesn't explain why her attitude towards those powers as well as her apparent control over them is different.

[JKtheMac]

Thank you for calling my posts laughable.

But even by your personal definition of comics, it still fails. I didn't find it fun at all. I found it stupid.

Good fiction follows its own internal logic. Ever heard of the phrase, "suspension of disbelief?" Every heard of the phrase "shared universe?" How about "world outside your window"? Again, this books fails -- in all those cases.

Let's take stock for a moment. This was a throw away scene that was supposed to hark back to the golden age and pulp roots of the character. We all know Ka-Zar is a Tarzan analogy and it would be totally in keeping with the pulp tradition for there to be a story of how a character like that visited and infiltrated an underwater kingdom. To call it stupid is to call the entire history of this medium stupid.