Spider-Gwen: Ghost-Spider Appreciation 2019

[Frontier]

Mega oof right there. Also, did she actually read the issues with 616 Gwen or is she just conflating the various Gwens from different medias together? A lot of so-called fans of 616 Gwen do the latter.

I think she is. She really seems to be under the impression 616 Gwen was more like Spectacular/Emma Stone Gwen then she actually was.

I mean, all power too her on that front, but that wasn't what the comic version was like.

[eratas123]

I think she is. She really seems to be under the impression 616 Gwen was more like Spectacular/Emma Stone Gwen then she actually was.

I mean, all power too her on that front, but that wasn't what the comic version was like.

Amen to that. As much as I love Spider-Gwen pretending that any part of the original was retained in her is just lying to yourself. The Gwens havjng nothing in common frim media to media is a running gag at this point compared to how Peter, MJ, Harry etc etc retain their core characters. Just look at the latest carroon where she’s an odd mash up of comics Spider-Gwen and the Emma Stone version.

[Lukmendes]

Really? Last I checked most authors didn’r make MJ worse, they just retroactively make Gwen better than she actually was. Spider- Man Blue leans hard on this by portraying the romance as far sweeter than what it actually was.

It wasn't anything like making her personality worse (Worded it badly, not what I meant), they just changed MJ's haircut to make Gwen look prettier by comparison, thus, trying to get the attention away from MJ.

Oh, and most writers either forget or pretend that Gwen didn’t hate Spider-Man long before he was accused of killing her dad. She had a panic attack when she thought Peter was Spidey.

I think there's at least one opportunity she was shown to be supportive of Spidey, think it was an issue which Otto tried to steal some tech... but eventually she was either indifferent or wary, and considering that there were two opportunities where it looked like Spidey had hurt Peter, she had enough reason to be wary, but until her father died, she hardly really hated Spidey, and when she did start to be wary, again, she had a reason.

Here it is:

And I just thought, ‘This character is magnificent. I’m going to follow her forever. And I don’t know who that redhead is on the covers that I see at the comic book store, but clearly she’s irrelevant.’

Dude...

Okay, shocking to see her saying this, but let's also keep the context in mind:

but Gwen Stacy is a character that has been near and dear to my heart since I was a very small child. I grew up super poor in the state of California, and that means that my comic book reading was usually about 10 years behind what was new on stands, because I was getting the collections of the teenagers who had just gone off to college. Their mom sold them at yard sales and my mom brought them home for me. And I loved Gwen Stacy. She was smart, she was a science nerd. She got to hang out with Spider-Man but didn’t actually have to do stuff. And I just thought, ‘This character is magnificent. I’m going to follow her forever. And I don’t know who that redhead is on the covers that I see at the comic book store, but clearly she’s irrelevant.’

So she was a kid when she thought this, and hey, it's normal to think in weird ways as a kid.

But unfortunately, it seems she didn't change that much with the way she's writing EmJay... But still worth keeping in mind the quote is when she was a kid, so maybe the contempt isn't in that level anymore... I think? I hope? Yeah.

There's also this:

She was smart, she was a science nerd. She got to hang out with Spider-Man but didn’t actually have to do stuff.

Like, I know the characters say she's a science nerd, she even said she's a major in, some science **** I don't remember now, but I don't think they ever showed it, plus she hardly even hung out with Spidey, the one time she did that I remember, she was pissed, pretty sure it was in one of the stories which she thought Spidey hurt Peter, but maybe it was after her father died too.

Of course, maybe by "hang out with Spidey", she meant Peter, but eh, pretty big difference between hanging out with one and the other lol.

Amen to that. As much as I love Spider-Gwen pretending that any part of the original was retained in her is just lying to yourself. The Gwens havjng nothing in common frim media to media is a running gag at this point compared to how Peter, MJ, Harry etc etc retain their core characters. Just look at the latest carroon where she’s an odd mash up of comics Spider-Gwen and the Emma Stone version.

I remember the first time I saw Gwen in the Spectacular cartoon, I thought something like "Hey, it's that blonde with glasses love interest, didn't think she would be in a cartoon... Wait, why are they calling her Gwen?"

Yeah, first time I saw that Gwen, I thought she was Debra Whitman, and I don't remember much of Debra, but I think she was more on the meek and quiet side, which, Spectacular Gwen was like that around Peter sometimes... Yeah, if I'm right, too much Debra in that Gwen.

But hey, considering they change her personality with every adaptation, maybe someday we'll get a Ditko accurate one, y'know, being a bitch sometimes and sometimes not at random, and then we'll ironically have people bitching about how she isn't accurate to Gwen

[Frontier]

Gwen on the Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon had a bit of her Ditko haughtiness, for at least 3 episodes.

[Snoop Dogg]

Someday, someone will give Ditko TsunStacy the rights she deserves.

[Digifiend]

Gwen on the Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon had a bit of her Ditko haughtiness, for at least 3 episodes.

Yeah, she had character development. Started off aloof, quickly got more friendly, and then in season 2 got a new look which reflects how she's changed.

[eratas123]

Yeah, she had character development. Started off aloof, quickly got more friendly, and then in season 2 got a new look which reflects how she's changed.

There was actually a moment when she regressed a bit. When she (very stupidly) went out as Spider-Gwen sans mask prior to Spider Island she was very proud/smug of the fact that she had the adoration of New York and completely brushes away Peter's warnings that this could be dangerous/backfire on her. As far as she was concerned she was New York's darling and that meant she was right.

I actually wish they kept her ego alongside her sense of justice. Would've been a nice contrast to the much more humble Miles, Peter and Anya and similar to Marvel Action Spider-Man where Gwen's the much more headstrong, devil-may-care member of the trio.

[Frontier]

There was actually a moment when she regressed a bit. When she (very stupidly) went out as Spider-Gwen sans mask prior to Spider Island she was very proud/smug of the fact that she had the adoration of New York and completely brushes away Peter's warnings that this could be dangerous/backfire on her. As far as she was concerned she was New York's darling and that meant she was right.

I actually wish they kept her ego alongside her sense of justice. Would've been a nice contrast to the much more humble Miles, Peter and Anya and similar to Marvel Action Spider-Man where Gwen's the much more headstrong, devil-may-care member of the trio.

Considering there have been basically no consequences from her actions on that front, I guess she was right .

(I don't think they put a lot of thought into Gwen's hero work on that show).

[eratas123]

Considering there have been basically no consequences from her actions on that front, I guess she was right .

(I don't think they put a lot of thought into Gwen's hero work on that show).

“Huh, this Ghost Spider has the exact same costume as Spider-Gwen from a few months ago...must not be related at all.” - random Marvel citizen, probably

[Lukmendes]

“Huh, this Ghost Spider has the exact same costume as Spider-Gwen from a few months ago...must not be related at all.” - random Marvel citizen, probably

Sounds like a Marvel civilian lol.

[Frontier]

“Huh, this Ghost Spider has the exact same costume as Spider-Gwen from a few months ago...must not be related at all.” - random Marvel citizen, probably

I don't even know why she's bothering with a mask unless she doesn't want to feel left out since Miles and Anya have masks (which is kind of silly).

[eratas123]

Read the latest Ghost Spider:

spoilers:

Starts off with Man-Wolf and Miles Warren talking about their last 'adventure' with Gwen. Here we find out a few more details for our upcoming repeat baddie: first he has daddy issues up the ass and is convinced that the city is HIS, not Gwen's or his dad's. Second we're told that his powers came from Miles Warren's serum and that it really only activates in the time of a full moon. This leads to him complaining that Gwen gets powers for the whole month while he's stuck twiddling his thumbs for the moon to turn full cheese. One thing I found funny/noteworthy is that when Jameson Jr. asks Miles if he 'should've gone for another mad scientist' Miles responds don't be ridiculous, 'Peter Parker died long before you decided to become a monster'. This leads me to believe that the whole Lizard thing - and Peter's creation of the serum - is fully out in the open and Peter Parker's reputation in that universe is absolutely trashed beyond repair. I guess that might explain why Gwen doesn't talk to the Parkers anymore...and I'm happy that she's no stupidly blaming herself for it. In the first run she deliberately kept the Lizard thing hidden because 'this can't be Peter's legacy'. Well guess what, he made that bed now he should lie in it. Anyway, Gwen goes back to her own dimension and walks in on a shop being robbed with Bodega Bandit as one of the casualties. Once she stops the baddies there's even a kinda cute moment where Gwen comforts BB and he weakly asks if he's her arch-nemesis, to which she says sure he can be whatever he wants. She even briefly wonders if her dimension hopping to 616 is a bad idea since it leaves 65 more vulnerable (YES!), but of course she sticks with it. One thing that's nice to see is, as established before, Gwen now has a decent rapport with the cops and citizens she saves now that she has an open identity. The cop offers her sympathy (probably helps that she's Captain Stacy's daughter, which would put her heroics in a more positive light) and the people she saves thank her profusely, give her hugs and generally act in a very appreciative manner. Though, one thing that kinda bugs me is that EVERYONE calls her Ghost Spider. Did Gwen get a PR agent off-screen cause I find it hard to believe she public broadcast the name change. Going back to Man-Wolf, we see what Benji got from 616 Miles Warren - a serum that turned her into a palette swap Man-Wolf. Um...yay? I kinda thought it'd be Jackal or Spider related, but I guess it's to fit the next month's cover. We also see Benji's motivation when she spied on Gwen: she's elated because she believes that, with Miles giving her powers, she can 'save the world'. This makes, what, the fifth or sixth villain Gwen tangles with whose motivation boils down to I wanna be special/famous/badass? I get that it's a theme but come on, does Gwen have a freaking siren above her head screaming 'wannabes and tryhards, come get me'? This honestly gets to the point of oversaturation since, apart from Murderdock, Gwen never has antagonists that are personal or target her because of who she is. She's always either a convenient target for misplaced violence or people are just fucking jealous of her winning the genetic lottery and getting powers. Seriously, lets count them: 65-Peter wanted to be special 'like her' (jealousy/wanna be special), Harry wanted to kill her because he felt weak after being unable to stop her killing Peter (misplaced anger and jealousy), Vulture was jealous of her and Peter's fame/infamy and wanted in on that (jealousy/wanna be special), Bodega Bandit is obsessed with being her arch-nemesis purely because she's a superhero (wanna be special/admiration?), Punisher wanted a powered freak to take down (misplaced anger), Gwen Goblin took to heroism because she wanted to be special like her world's Spider-Man (wanna be special) and both Benji (wanna be special) and Man-Wolf (jealousy and wanna be special) are obsessed with getting powers and being in control. In a lot of these cases Gwen's own personality and character is a non-issue and the antagonists just focus on her having powers at all or they want powers of their own which corrupted them and led them to fighting against Gwen. The ONLY one who makes an effort to make this **** personal is Murderdock, and even then his first motivation for going after her is that she had powers - not because she stopped him or anything - and made that as an extension of his own repressed guilt and neuroses. I joked before that Earth-65 is the Tall Poppy Syndrome dimension but god damn it, do a majority of Gwen's villains really need to have such base motivations? Can we vary it up a bit please? To finish off, Benji found out Gwen's a superhero from another dimension and reports to Warren. Miles, of course, believes that this is fate since this means the universe is 'giving him a second chance' with a younger Gwen Stacy where 'better choices were made'. Again Benji seems perturbed by Miles' obsession and (somehow) doesn't seem to realize this dude wants in on a woman young enough to be his daughter. Which wouldn't even be that horrible if it was consensual, but mutual is as far as this attraction is.

end of spoilers

Just some random thoughts - Bodega Bandit looks WAY better in this artstyle than the previous run. In that one he looked raggedy and malnourished whereas now he looks for more boyish and conventionally appealing to look at:



Also, I'm kinda convinced that Maguire really doesn't care much for MJ's previous character development and just wants her stuck as the woman screeching into Gwen's ear. The only mention of her Gwen has in this chapter is talking about MJ being on her ass for band practice and Gwen takes not consistently skipping as a victory over her, complete with mild taunting:



Seriously, WTH happened to the woman who was perfectly willing to go on tour just to help Gwen perform low-key hero work and was ecstatic for Gwen being a superhero? Why was she replaced with a screeching harpy who accuses Gwen of being a saboteur attention whore while expressing jealousy (yet another one) of her powers? OTOH Maguire also added some rather heavy-handed les yay subtext that wasn't there in the Latour run, so I honestly have no clue whether she likes MJ or what.

[TinkerSpider]

[QUOTE=eratas123;4645081]Read the latest Ghost Spider:

spoilers:

Starts off with Man-Wolf and Miles Warren talking about their last 'adventure' with Gwen. Here we find out a few more details for our upcoming repeat baddie: first he has daddy issues up the ass and is convinced that the city is HIS, not Gwen's or his dad's. Second we're told that his powers came from Miles Warren's serum and that it really only activates in the time of a full moon. This leads to him complaining that Gwen gets powers for the whole month while he's stuck twiddling his thumbs for the moon to turn full cheese. One thing I found funny/noteworthy is that when Jameson Jr. asks Miles if he 'should've gone for another mad scientist' Miles responds don't be ridiculous, 'Peter Parker died long before you decided to become a monster'. This leads me to believe that the whole Lizard thing - and Peter's creation of the serum - is fully out in the open and Peter Parker's reputation in that universe is absolutely trashed beyond repair. I guess that might explain why Gwen doesn't talk to the Parkers anymore...and I'm happy that she's no stupidly blaming herself for it. In the first run she deliberately kept the Lizard thing hidden because 'this can't be Peter's legacy'. Well guess what, he made that bed now he should lie in it. Anyway, Gwen goes back to her own dimension and walks in on a shop being robbed with Bodega Bandit as one of the casualties. Once she stops the baddies there's even a kinda cute moment where Gwen comforts BB and he weakly asks if he's her arch-nemesis, to which she says sure he can be whatever he wants. She even briefly wonders if her dimension hopping to 616 is a bad idea since it leaves 65 more vulnerable (YES!), but of course she sticks with it. One thing that's nice to see is, as established before, Gwen now has a decent rapport with the cops and citizens she saves now that she has an open identity. The cop offers her sympathy (probably helps that she's Captain Stacy's daughter, which would put her heroics in a more positive light) and the people she saves thank her profusely, give her hugs and generally act in a very appreciative manner. Though, one thing that kinda bugs me is that EVERYONE calls her Ghost Spider. Did Gwen get a PR agent off-screen cause I find it hard to believe she public broadcast the name change. Going back to Man-Wolf, we see what Benji got from 616 Miles Warren - a serum that turned her into a palette swap Man-Wolf. Um...yay? I kinda thought it'd be Jackal or Spider related, but I guess it's to fit the next month's cover. We also see Benji's motivation when she spied on Gwen: she's elated because she believes that, with Miles giving her powers, she can 'save the world'. This makes, what, the fifth or sixth villain Gwen tangles with whose motivation boils down to I wanna be special/famous/badass? I get that it's a theme but come on, does Gwen have a freaking siren above her head screaming 'wannabes and tryhards, come get me'? This honestly gets to the point of oversaturation since, apart from Murderdock, Gwen never has antagonists that are personal or target her because of who she is. She's always either a convenient target for misplaced violence or people are just fucking jealous of her winning the genetic lottery and getting powers. Seriously, lets count them: 65-Peter wanted to be special 'like her' (jealousy/wanna be special), Harry wanted to kill her because he felt weak after being unable to stop her killing Peter (misplaced anger and jealousy), Vulture was jealous of her and Peter's fame/infamy and wanted in on that (jealousy/wanna be special), Bodega Bandit is obsessed with being her arch-nemesis purely because she's a superhero (wanna be special/admiration?), Punisher wanted a powered freak to take down (misplaced anger), Gwen Goblin took to heroism because she wanted to be special like her world's Spider-Man (wanna be special) and both Benji (wanna be special) and Man-Wolf (jealousy and wanna be special) are obsessed with getting powers and being in control. In a lot of these cases Gwen's own personality and character is a non-issue and the antagonists just focus on her having powers at all or they want powers of their own which corrupted them and led them to fighting against Gwen. The ONLY one who makes an effort to make this **** personal is Murderdock, and even then his first motivation for going after her is that she had powers - not because she stopped him or anything - and made that as an extension of his own repressed guilt and neuroses. I joked before that Earth-65 is the Tall Poppy Syndrome dimension but god damn it, do a majority of Gwen's villains really need to have such base motivations? Can we vary it up a bit please? To finish off, Benji found out Gwen's a superhero from another dimension and reports to Warren. Miles, of course, believes that this is fate since this means the universe is 'giving him a second chance' with a younger Gwen Stacy where 'better choices were made'. Again Benji seems perturbed by Miles' obsession and (somehow) doesn't seem to realize this dude wants in on a woman young enough to be his daughter. Which wouldn't even be that horrible if it was consensual, but mutual is as far as this attraction is.

end of spoilers

agree with your thoughts but to me it adds up to mcguire is just not a very good comic book writer who is too in love with gwen to give her or her world dimension. i was thoroughly bored.

Just some random thoughts - Bodega Bandit looks WAY better in this artstyle than the previous run. In that one he looked raggedy and malnourished whereas now he looks for more boyish and conventionally appealing to look at

agree. bad world building inconsistency.

Also, I'm kinda convinced that Maguire really doesn't care much for MJ's previous character development and just wants her stuck as the woman screeching into Gwen's ear. The only mention of her Gwen has in this chapter is talking about MJ being on her ass for band practice and Gwen takes not consistently skipping as a victory over her, complete with mild taunting:



Seriously, WTH happened to the woman who was perfectly willing to go on tour just to help Gwen perform low-key hero work and was ecstatic for Gwen being a superhero? Why was she replaced with a screeching harpy who accuses Gwen of being a saboteur attention whore while expressing jealousy (yet another one) of her powers? OTOH Maguire also added some rather heavy-handed les yay subtext that wasn't there in the Latour run, so I honestly have no clue whether she likes MJ or what.

it’s been pretty well established mcguire imprinted on 616 gwen as a kid, was upset by her death, and doesn’t like the “irrelevant redhead” as a result. as for les yes, everyone wuvs gwen now.

but macguire also doesn’t give gwen dimensions. she’s lost the edge to her personality she had under latour. so maybe mcguire can only write angels (gwen) or bitches (mj) in a comic book.

[eratas123]

To be fair Gwen does still have some edge, but it’s far less than before. She threatens to kill Man Wolf at one point and when Venom was going nuts she was rather brutal. Even in this issue when the guy said ‘I put my hands up that means you stop’ she just rolls her eyes at him and makes it clear she doesn’t care for his attempt at rules lawyering.

But yes, Gwen lost her punk rocker feel from the last run, but even that is justified. Before she was a fugitive accused of murdering her best friend with Murdock on her tail trying to corrupt her. Now she’s been publicly exonerated, is an open hero and most of the public sides with her, so of course she’d generally be cheerier. Even with Man Wolf her life is far better than before.

[Hypestyle]

isn't a certain person supposed to have died long ago? Exposed as a criminal? why do they have a mainstream job now?