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  1. #256
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    He got her backed up, yes. Considering his training, its not that hard to fathom he would be able to, some degree, counter Cass (whom probably had rarely run into such people before).
    Remember that Batman did tell Cass not to fight metas in her original Batgirl series, and with that kind of tech, Jason is similar to a meta, in that Cass can't necessarily predict everything he'll do.

    And I say this as someone who always wants Cass to be the best fighter. I just think that the best doesn't always win - because fights aren't math. Fights are human contact, and thus unpredictable.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  2. #257
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    And I say this as someone who always wants Cass to be the best fighter. I just think that the best doesn't always win - because fights aren't math. Fights are human contact, and thus unpredictable.
    Even her mom is also "technically" the best but she's lost.

    Not in direct fights per se, but still.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Even her mom is also "technically" the best but she's lost.

    Not in direct fights per se, but still.
    I like to think that Cass is the best, because I prefer good to be better than evil. (And I know Shiva's not supposed to be pure evil, but I think she mostly is.)
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
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  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Remember that Batman did tell Cass not to fight metas in her original Batgirl series, and with that kind of tech, Jason is similar to a meta, in that Cass can't necessarily predict everything he'll do.

    And I say this as someone who always wants Cass to be the best fighter. I just think that the best doesn't always win - because fights aren't math. Fights are human contact, and thus unpredictable.
    Jason was trained by Shiva, it might be that he knows how to fight against people who use Body Reading.

    And I remember that in her old series it was said that Cass's defence is completely reliant on her Body Reading, so if Jason can make a move that Cass can't predict she is screwed. And really just one unpredictable move might be all he needs, and they fought for like 8 minutes before he made that move.

  5. #260
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Jason was trained by Shiva, it might be that he knows how to fight against people who use Body Reading.

    And I remember that in her old series it was said that Cass's defence is completely reliant on her Body Reading, so if Jason can make a move that Cass can't predict she is screwed. And really just one unpredictable move might be all he needs, and they fought for like 8 minutes before he made that move.
    Isn't that one reason why Cass had trouble with Joker? She couldn't predict what he would do?

    I seem to remember that happening...

  6. #261
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Isn't that one reason why Cass had trouble with Joker? She couldn't predict what he would do?

    I seem to remember that happening...
    Yup, in one of the Specials
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
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  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Remember that Batman did tell Cass not to fight metas in her original Batgirl series, and with that kind of tech, Jason is similar to a meta, in that Cass can't necessarily predict everything he'll do.
    Sounds reasonable. But it's still unbelievable to me, that if Dick didn't step in, Cass would very likely be chopped dead by Jason. Cannot believe it.������

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFisher View Post
    Sounds reasonable. But it's still unbelievable to me, that if Dick didn't step in, Cass would very likely be chopped dead by Jason. Cannot believe it.������
    I mean, we can't really know what would have happened next. I just don't have a problem with Jason temporarily getting the better of Cass briefly.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
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  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I mean, we can't really know what would have happened next. I just don't have a problem with Jason temporarily getting the better of Cass briefly.
    I haven't read the specific issue in question so I have no opinion in the fine detail, but broadly speaking I'd group Cass v Jason match-ups into two categories with contrasting win-loss probabilities:

    a) Hand-to-Hand: Jason has a reach and weight advantage, and was trained at a very high level with the League of Assassins after his resurrection, but prior to that was skilled but not at LoA level; Cass has a speed, agility and reflexes advantage and has always trained at a similar level to Jason's best training. Given all this, I'd say Jason might be able to edge a win if he struck by surprise and took her down quickly enough, otherwise I'd give Cass the win in these circumstances.

    b) Jason has a strong basis of weapons and/or gadgets use as far back as his Robin days, whereas Cass has generally been limited here. certainly eschewing any non-melee distance weapons/gadgets. At melee range, I might still give the edge to Cass, but given that Jason does have some tactical ability I could easily see him striking from middle distance with weapons, which could/should give Jason the win.

  10. #265
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    I haven't read the specific issue in question so I have no opinion in the fine detail, but broadly speaking I'd group Cass v Jason match-ups into two categories with contrasting win-loss probabilities:

    a) Hand-to-Hand: Jason has a reach and weight advantage, and was trained at a very high level with the League of Assassins after his resurrection, but prior to that was skilled but not at LoA level; Cass has a speed, agility and reflexes advantage and has always trained at a similar level to Jason's best training. Given all this, I'd say Jason might be able to edge a win if he struck by surprise and took her down quickly enough, otherwise I'd give Cass the win in these circumstances.

    b) Jason has a strong basis of weapons and/or gadgets use as far back as his Robin days, whereas Cass has generally been limited here. certainly eschewing any non-melee distance weapons/gadgets. At melee range, I might still give the edge to Cass, but given that Jason does have some tactical ability I could easily see him striking from middle distance with weapons, which could/should give Jason the win.
    Cass does initially get the upper hand, but Jason figures out she's reading his movements (he trained with Shiva), counters it, and pops out his blades on his wrists, clearly surprising Cass.

  11. #266
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    Anyone read the latest Batman?

    Pure trash. I really wish writers would stop acting like real life memes give power to fictional characters (unless that is their power, heh)

  12. #267
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Anyone read the latest Batman?

    Pure trash. I really wish writers would stop acting like real life memes give power to fictional characters (unless that is their power, heh)
    Well. I liked it. Not the best issue in the run, but it was fun seeing Cass having an important place in the Batfamily.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Anyone read the latest Batman?

    Pure trash. I really wish writers would stop acting like real life memes give power to fictional characters (unless that is their power, heh)
    What was wrong with it?

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What was wrong with it?
    Grand-pa Bats beats the extended Bat family, Cass included, by himself.

    'Cause he's Batman

  15. #270
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Grand-pa Bats beats the extended Bat family, Cass included, by himself.

    'Cause he's Batman
    And importantly, after they'd already completely wrecked him.
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