Cassandra Cain: Batgirl, Black Bat, Orphan Appreciation 2019

[gregpersons]

EDIT: Daphne Keen as X-23 in Logan I think was a good step in the right direction for a movie Cass. She is a good balance of violence and looking at the world through that lens.

Agreed on this point. The movie version of X-23 in "Logan" was very much like comic book Cass. They're pretty similar characters in a lot of ways.

It'd definitely be more faithful to have gone in that direction for the BOP film with Cass, but I'm okay with trying something different, to emphasize something besides her as a "feral" living weapon. Again, who knows with the movie but I'm trying to keep an open mind about it.

[Frontier]

Cass, IMO, when she had her own series, did not get enough mileage out of it. She never had as much interaction with the Superman family as other Batgirls (yes, I know about Superboy) and other Bat writers seemed to treat her as a red headed step child. I can't remember many team ups with fellow Bats, in an era when they walked in and out of one another's books like crossing the street. Hell, before that crappy Beechen mini, I don't recall Cass having any major interaction with Nightwing, the second most important Bat.

I think her most important Batfamily relationships were Babs, Bruce, Steph, and Tim in that order. And that was pretty much it.

[gregpersons]

...yeah, no.

Cass, IMO, when she had her own series, did not get enough mileage out of it. She never had as much interaction with the Superman family as other Batgirls (yes, I know about Superboy) and other Bat writers seemed to treat her as a red headed step child. I can't remember many team ups with fellow Bats, in an era when they walked in and out of one another's books like crossing the street. Hell, before that crappy Beechen mini, I don't recall Cass having any major interaction with Nightwing, the second most important Bat.

But her series? That was exceptionally well written.

Her climb to the top as the most bad ass martial artist? That was earned, she didn't just snatch it.

I can think of several stand alone issues that displayed Cass' character, much like Batman's.

And her character and archetype, her struggles not just with reading, but nature vs. nurture, always hovered over the series.

Cass' series was ended unfairly, and her character deliberately butchered, but she never lacked for potential or depth.

And I see little of that in the trailers for BoP. I remember how Harley and Will Smith/Deadshot hijacked Suicide Squad, so I'm not hopeful here.

Re: Nightwing — Cass and Dick have an issue or two together during the Murderer/Fugitive arc, where they are re-enacting the murder scene.

Again, I liked her original series; we probably like a lot of the same issues / arcs. Her arc with Shiva is very fun, and whenever Shiva recurs. There are some good single issues within this period. Mostly I liked the way she was built up over time in the series, and you can track a progression with her.

We agree she was treated extremely poorly and unfairly by the Bat writers. We agree she's got potential and depth. So... yeah, no? I dunno.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I think her most important Batfamily relationships were Babs, Bruce, Steph, and Tim in that order. And that was pretty much it.

Agreed. But my point is, how often did she show up in Robin, or Nightwing with character focus? I can remember stories where Nightwing played big bro to Tim (blindfolded train riding, for instance), but nothing of the like for Cass

[Digifiend]

EDIT: Daphne Keen as X-23 in Logan I think was a good step in the right direction for a movie Cass. She is a good balance of violence and looking at the world through that lens.

Hardly surprising, as Laura and Cassandra are similar characters anyway. Though Laura received character development in All-New Wolverine, whereas Cassandra at that point (2015) was back to square one due to the New 52 reboot, with her character development in her Batgirl series erased.

[lowfyr]

I would be for this if I wasn't also worried they would change her character to match the movie.

There is that, too.

[Blight]

Agreed. But my point is, how often did she show up in Robin, or Nightwing with character focus? I can remember stories where Nightwing played big bro to Tim (blindfolded train riding, for instance), but nothing of the like for Cass

I can recall issues with Tim (the issue where she protects him as he's taken out of Gotham during No Man's Land and we see why he's so darn terrified of her), the wacky issue where he follows her for a night (because she's a suspect for some crazy plot), Fresh Blood two issues, and the Beechen run. Then in Red Robin when he finds her (between issues), shows up in Hong Kong to give her back her Batgirl costume, and then the Black Bat team-up issue. You get the feeling at a certain point someone wanted Tim/Cass to be working together be it Snyder or Fab. Since by the endpoint prior to the New 52 the two were teaming up regularly. If it had continued an ongoing with the both sharing a lead role wouldn't have been at all surprising.

Dick? One issue #81 aka the Deathstroke fight which she does as a favor to Dick who was sidelined.

Of course there is also Gates of Gotham mini to consider as well which has all the "good" Bat kids working together on a case. Probably still to this day my favorite Scott Snyder and Kyle Higgins DCU story.

The more curious question is Tynion set back up Babs mentoring Cass again at the end of his Tec run... and no Batgirl writer has since followed up on that. Perhaps the true crime here?

[Frontier]

The more curious question is Tynion set back up Babs mentoring Cass again at the end of his Tec run... and no Batgirl writer has since followed up on that. Perhaps the true crime here?

Yeah, the only time anyone followed that up was Bryan Hill for his guest arc in 'Tec, at least before Babs got ticked and huffed out of there.

(But you could totally tell he wanted to write Babs as Oracle there).

Bat-books just don't play ball with each other anymore.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Babs was hurriedly forced into an exit stage left there. I bet Hill had planned to use her in Outsiders and got told no. That may well be what caused Outsiders' launch delay - it needed a rewrite.