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  1. #196
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    Her character is going to be forever altered, as non comic book readers

    will use this as their base Casssandra,

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Her character is going to be forever altered, as non comic book readers

    will use this as their base Casssandra,
    That's a sad thought...

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Her character is going to be forever altered, as non comic book readers

    will use this as their base Casssandra,
    Eh, if Aquaman can be made bad ass, Cass can recover

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Eh, if Aquaman can be made bad ass, Cass can recover
    Aquaman has had many interpretation and appeared in many mediums for decades

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Aquaman has had many interpretation and appeared in many mediums for decades
    Aquaman had a reputation as a joke character among casual audiences for decades. It wasn't until the movie salvaged him that this was fixed.

    DC has shown many times they are not beholden to previous takes when it comes to adaptations.

  6. #201
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    The thing about Cass is, if you play her straight and you're not letting the audience into her head, if she's minor character in somebody else's movie, then she's in danger of hitting every cliched branch on the Asian side character tree. She's just a pretty Asian teenage girl, who doesn't really talk and is an unbelievable martial arts prodigy. She's a cypher. She's basically Snake Eyes.

    It's better that her personality is changed to fit the movie, then for her to be labelled a racist parody and struck from the record. Cass is a weak archetype who was enhanced and developed by smart, nuanced writing, but nuance and dissection of those tropes takes dedicated screen or page time and sometimes movies just need the archetype.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Eh, if Aquaman can be made bad ass, Cass can recover
    Hopefully they don't try to force any movie synergy with this film...well, beyond sticking the Birds with Harley like they already plan to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Aquaman had a reputation as a joke character among casual audiences for decades. It wasn't until the movie salvaged him that this was fixed.
    I think there was a steady building up of Aquaman's reputation before the movie, with the Johns revamp and some of his media depictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    The thing about Cass is, if you play her straight and you're not letting the audience into her head, if she's minor character in somebody else's movie, then she's in danger of hitting every cliched branch on the Asian side character tree. She's just a pretty Asian teenage girl, who doesn't really talk and is an unbelievable martial arts prodigy. She's a cypher. She's basically Snake Eyes.
    I mean, if we're acknowledging that she's just a minor character in a Harley movie instead of a true lead character, isn't that a problem in-and-of-itself?

    If she were a lead character and true to character I would think the filmmakers could do a better job of conveying the character and her complexity, but it doesn't seem like they're even going that far. Why even call her Cassandra Cain.

    She was very effective in her one YJ appearance where she fell into that Snake Eyes archetype, even if I didn't like the sword and the show never did anything with her afterwards. But you can still get depth and memorability with Snake Eyes, that's why he's the most popular Joe.
    It's better that her personality is changed to fit the movie, then for her to be labelled a racist parody and struck from the record. Cass is a weak archetype who was enhanced and developed by smart, nuanced writing, but nuance and dissection of those tropes takes dedicated screen or page time and sometimes movies just need the archetype.
    If she comes off like a racist parody then you're really doing her wrong.

    I don't think it's better she be changed to fit the movie if it means she doesn't resemble herself at all.

  8. #203
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    [QUOTE=Frontier;4605621]

    I mean, if we're acknowledging that she's just a minor character in a Harley movie instead of a true lead character, isn't that a problem in-and-of-itself?

    Uh... no? Every major DC character who has graduated to the screen has been a supporting character in someone else's movie at some point. Even Batman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If she comes off like a racist parody then you're really doing her wrong.
    I mean, it is what it is. Batman's a rich guy in a bat suit who lost his parents. Cassandra Cain is an east-Asian martial arts badass who doesn't speak much. To an audience who don't know her, its that gestalt they will engage with before anything else. And that runs into a long history of Asian stereotypes. No story is told in a vacuum. Even Lee Byung hun who played Storm Shadow complained when he took the role that he kept getting type cast as 'kung fu badass.'

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    I mean, it is what it is. Batman's a rich guy in a bat suit who lost his parents. Cassandra Cain is an east-Asian martial arts badass who doesn't speak much. To an audience who don't know her, its that gestalt they will engage with before anything else. And that runs into a long history of Asian stereotypes. No story is told in a vacuum. Even Lee Byung hun who played Storm Shadow complained when he took the role that he kept getting type cast as 'kung fu badass.'
    The simple solution seems to be to play up her guilt and social isolation, and contrast it with her bad assness

    Harley could actually that, play the straight man to Cass' over the top kick-assness, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    The simple solution seems to be to play up her guilt and social isolation, and contrast it with her bad assness

    Harley could actually that, play the straight man to Cass' over the top kick-assness, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case.
    ‘Harley plays the straight man’ is never really a plan with legs.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    ‘Harley plays the straight man’ is never really a plan with legs.
    Well, I meant in regards to Cass' combat ability. She would work as a foil, as Cass keeps her from killing

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Well, I meant in regards to Cass' combat ability. She would work as a foil, as Cass keeps her from killing
    That still makes Cass the straight man, though.

  13. #208
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    [QUOTE=Swallowtail;4605795]
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    I mean, if we're acknowledging that she's just a minor character in a Harley movie instead of a true lead character, isn't that a problem in-and-of-itself?

    Uh... no? Every major DC character who has graduated to the screen has been a supporting character in someone else's movie at some point. Even Batman.



    I mean, it is what it is. Batman's a rich guy in a bat suit who lost his parents. Cassandra Cain is an east-Asian martial arts badass who doesn't speak much. To an audience who don't know her, its that gestalt they will engage with before anything else. And that runs into a long history of Asian stereotypes. No story is told in a vacuum. Even Lee Byung hun who played Storm Shadow complained when he took the role that he kept getting type cast as 'kung fu badass.'
    I agree that the first thing I thought when I saw Cass speaking is they're trying to avoid Silent Asian Dragon Lady stereotype, so I'm okay with that decision but only for that reason. Becoming a badass is a standard superhero fare and everyone will be a badass in the movie so she won't stand out and that part of her can stay.

  14. #209
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    [QUOTE=Swallowtail;4605795]
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    I mean, if we're acknowledging that she's just a minor character in a Harley movie instead of a true lead character, isn't that a problem in-and-of-itself?

    Uh... no? Every major DC character who has graduated to the screen has been a supporting character in someone else's movie at some point. Even Batman.



    I mean, it is what it is. Batman's a rich guy in a bat suit who lost his parents. Cassandra Cain is an east-Asian martial arts badass who doesn't speak much. To an audience who don't know her, its that gestalt they will engage with before anything else. And that runs into a long history of Asian stereotypes. No story is told in a vacuum. Even Lee Byung hun who played Storm Shadow complained when he took the role that he kept getting type cast as 'kung fu badass.'
    When was Batman ever a supporting character in someone else's movie?

    Cass is a far more nuanced character than an Asian martial artist stereotype. I'm not as down on this movie as some are but it isn't impossible to use her comic depiction in an ensemble cast. After all, she did have a supporting cast in the books and came across as a full character when interacting with them.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    Uh... no? Every major DC character who has graduated to the screen has been a supporting character in someone else's movie at some point. Even Batman.
    ...For example?
    I mean, it is what it is. Batman's a rich guy in a bat suit who lost his parents. Cassandra Cain is an east-Asian martial arts badass who doesn't speak much. To an audience who don't know her, its that gestalt they will engage with before anything else. And that runs into a long history of Asian stereotypes. No story is told in a vacuum. Even Lee Byung hun who played Storm Shadow complained when he took the role that he kept getting type cast as 'kung fu badass.'
    I think of her as more of a damaged individual trying to learn to live as a human and not a weapon while being more human then most humans.

    It's really all in the presentation. And frankly, the presentation in BoP doesn't seem to resemble Cass at all.

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