View Poll Results: Preferred day to start the discussion of an issue

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  1. #46
    Incredible Member Largo161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I like the idea that it's an aspect of the "Wisdom of Athena". She just knows what people mean by what they say. And in turn she knows how to convey to them what she wants to say.
    Okay...that’s an interesting way to consider it.

  2. #47
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    Television was still in its infancy and it seems like Hippolyte kept the Magic Sphere strictly under her royal control, but radio was free. With a simple crystal radio set, Wonder Woman could have listened to all sorts of programs.
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  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Another think is that Diana much like Superman in GA could control her voice. Meaning she doesn't have to sound like she has a accent. I do like Steve Trevor in GA. Marston did give him more to do then DC is now. I mean now they focus only on his military side. When Marston did his military and his family side. Makes him seem more human.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

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  4. #49
    Incredible Member Largo161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Another think is that Diana much like Superman in GA could control her voice. Meaning she doesn't have to sound like she has a accent. I do like Steve Trevor in GA. Marston did give him more to do then DC is now. I mean now they focus only on his military side. When Marston did his military and his family side. Makes him seem more human.
    We’re not talking about the sound of her voice—we’re talking about how she knows things about American culture.

    I don’t remember Marston focusing on Steve’s family...but he definitely kept him in the thick of Diana’s adventures. They’re practically a duo.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Oh. I do think a lot would have to do with The magically sphere. However, there were things she still didn't know. So it's a fair balance.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

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  6. #51
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Time for Sensation Comics #2: "Doctor Poison", where we are introduced to the first of Wonder Woman's classic antagonists: Doctor Poison herself! Feel free to post your own thoughts and theories on this story! Next Saturday, 9 February, we will go on to Sensation Comics #3: "A Spy at the Office".

    And let me start to say that I've liked to read the various thoughts and reactions that everyone else here has had. Keep up the good work!

    Reading the introductory monologues for the three stories read so far, the virtues of Paradise Island gets more and more pronounced. In the introductory story, the island isn't mentioned at all. In Sensation Comics #1 it is called "that enlightened land of women" and now it's "where life is eternal, where sorrow and suffering are unknown, and where love and justice make women strong beyond the dreams of men".

    Babs and Steve have something in common: neither likes to be wheeled around.

    Two German spies impersonating American officers turn up and abduct Steve Trevor. Diana (as nurse) guesses they are not what they seem and allows herself to be abducted as well. Both are tied up and brought to Doctor Poison, who intends to inject Steve with a truth serum. Diana is forced to assist, but exchanges the truth serum for a saline solution, and Steve gives false information to Doctor Poison.

    Wonder Woman twice breaks her bonds easily in this story and escapes from her room, but notes that she cannot safely rescue Steve as well, so goes for backup. Meanwhile Doctor Poison explains and executes her dastardly plan, causing chaos at the nearby army camp. Here it is really apparent that this is aimed at kids, with the poison more comical than anything else.

    Diana is compared to both Houdini, Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis. Steve is the first one to use exclamations based on classical gods, with his "great hounds of Hades". As she is escaping, Diana says to herself that she wished they had used chains insted of ropes: it would have been more fun.

    Diana goes to Holliday College and seeks out Etta Candy. This is apparently the first time we see Etta within the comics, but the comic is written as if we and Diana had seen her before. I'm not sure if there was some adventure published in between, but it sticks out like a raw thumb. They recruit the hundred "prettiest and strongest" girls of Holliday College to help "catch men". They "infiltrate" the spy base by marching up with music and throwing a party for the garrison.

    Diana rescues Steve (tied with chains, not ropes), and the Holliday girls capture and handcuff the men. Diana quotes OH Perry in her report to Steve, and they set out after Doctor Poison (princess Maru) and capture her with Etta's help. Diana threatens to publically shame Maru and gets the antidote out from her. Steve finally gets all the credit for breaking the spy ring.

    Diana the nurse obviously has fun needling Steve over Wonder Woman—she's definitely showing a sassier side here than in the previous two stories. We also start to see the introduction of the various infamous kinky themes.

    Concepts introduced: tied-up Diana, Holliday College, handcuffs, spanking, "great hounds of Hades", crossdressing villain

    Characters introduced: Etta Candy, Doctor Poison (princess Maru)

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Lex Luthor's Avatar
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    http://fyeahwilliammoultonmarston.tumblr.com



    I think this might be a good site to aid discussion. I believe there is some sort of tagging system to guide you towards specific issues.

  8. #53
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    SENSATION COMICS No. 2 (February 1942) went on sale December 5th, 1941. So just two days before Pearl Harbor. And, of course, the comics were written months in advance, so it would take awhile before the USA would officially join the Allies in fighting the Axis within the comic book reality. But that didn’t stop the comics from getting the jump on history.

    Wonder Woman bristles at being called “Angel,” so maybe Steve putting her up on a pedestal is not what she really wants. She would prefer he see her as a flesh and blood woman rather than some impossible ideal.

    Etta Candy is already established as a friend of Wonder Woman’s, even though this is the first time we see her. And the story refers to how Etta gained weight but never shows this chapter in her life. So I think that Marston and Peter had planned to use that story, but must have not had the chance to do so for some reason. The comic strip provides just such a story, so it must have already existed in an early draft.

    In the newspaper strip, it’s established that Diana is the leading scientist on Paradise Island--she is the one who invented the Invisible Plane. And when Steve crash lands on the island, he actually dies but Diana invents the Purple Ray to bring him back to life.

    So she easily passes the test to become a nurse. And this is how she gains her position at the hospital, rather than buying off her Diana Prince double. But that does suggest a very long time for Steve to be in the hospital. And both the newspaper strip and the original comics aren't in a hurry for Trevor to recover from all his injuries--while still having adventures as he recovers.

    In the daily strip, when nurse Prince discovers that the patient Etta Candy is suffering malnutrition after her apendectomy, Diana encourages the girl to eat lots of candy to increase her sugar levels. Given how Etta looks like a corpse when she is emaciated, it’s actually refreshing to see her grow plump. And the candy is almost like Popeye’s spinach in giving Etta lots of energy and power.

    This puts a positive spin on Etta’s extra pounds, as it seems nurse Diana believes that Etta should naturally consume more calories and become her plus-sized self, rather than the close to death’s door Etta in the hospital.
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  9. #54
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Luthor View Post
    http://fyeahwilliammoultonmarston.tumblr.com

    I think this might be a good site to aid discussion. I believe there is some sort of tagging system to guide you towards specific issues.
    Interesting blog! Not sure I agree with the Marston-on-a-piedestal take, but can be another jumping-off point for discussion and reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Wonder Woman bristles at being called “Angel,” so maybe Steve putting her up on a pedestal is not what she really wants. She would prefer he see her as a flesh and blood woman rather than some impossible ideal.
    I didn't think of it at first, but now that you point it out, Diana has one reaction to being called a "beautiful angel" in the beginning of SC #1, and wholly another in this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    This puts a positive spin on Etta’s extra pounds, as it seems nurse Diana believes that Etta should naturally consume more calories and become her plus-sized self, rather than the close to death’s door Etta in the hospital.
    The fyeahwilliammoultonmarston blog had an interesting insight here, that Etta Candy is never shamed in the comic for the way she looks or acts. At the same time, all the other girls shown so far as friends of Diana (Amazons or the Holliday college girls) are depicted as slim and athletic, and they are described as pretty or beautiful by the text, while Etta isn't.

    In a way, it feels like Marston is a better educated version of Robert Heinlein, in that he has highly contradictory parts in his thoughts about women and femininity that he had trouble reconciling.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Diana did think Etta was fine the way she was but also wanted Etta to stay fit. She did try to get Etta to exercise and not eat much candy. She just wanted Etta to balance it out more
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

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  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What do you guys think about in GA, that if someone did amazonian training they can reach many strengths. Would that be something you would want to see in modern say stories? Diana training girls and boys to be as powerful
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    The fyeahwilliammoultonmarston blog had an interesting insight here, that Etta Candy is never shamed in the comic for the way she looks or acts. At the same time, all the other girls shown so far as friends of Diana (Amazons or the Holliday college girls) are depicted as slim and athletic, and they are described as pretty or beautiful by the text, while Etta isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Diana did think Etta was fine the way she was but also wanted Etta to stay fit. She did try to get Etta to exercise and not eat much candy. She just wanted Etta to balance it out more
    Only up to SENSATION COMICS No. 2 in the reread, so far, and it's hard to say what direction Etta Candy will take in future comcs. That's something to keep an eye on going forward. But in her introduction, she stands out from the other Holliday Girls and that's obviously due to her girth and height, as well as her way with words.

    She might be the typical short and wide sidekick that every good hero seemed to have, but if you compare her with the others, like Woozy Winks, she's not so dumpy, she's just ample.

    Can you take me back where I came from?
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  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I’m curious with how many times Etta and the Holliday girls helped Diana do you guys think Diana should have trained them? That if the Holliday Girls were to be brought back Diana would train them? Also do you think amazon training should work the same way like in the golden age? That you can be strong as a Amazon’s ? Or you can be strong but not like a regular amazon
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

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  14. #59
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Out next adventure is "A Spy at the Office" from Sensation Comics #3! Feel free to post your own thoughts and theories on this story! Next Saturday, 16 February, we will go on to Sensation Comics #4 and "School for Spies".

    For being raised in an all-female society, Diana sure knows how to act stereotypically heart-broken in a highly dramatic manner.

    Colonel Darnell's dictation sure is some technobabble :-)

    It is interesting how Lila Brown is set up to be the only one in the office seeing Diana Prince and noting that there is something peculiar about her, but also is jealous of her and intrigues against her.

    The way the plot jumps around would be really bad, if it wasn't so over the top, with going from starting an investigation to find a leak to assigning Diana to do a health report for the 247 "girls" in the army intelligence department. But thanks to the health examinations, Diana uncovers Lila as the source of the leak and seemingly manages to turn her. Then an anonymous tipoff (probably Lila or Eve) accuses Diana of being a spy, and the letter that she took from Lila is found on her is taken as direct evidence that she is the one responsible for the leak.

    I can't say I'm impressed with the procedures for spycraft or operational security from anyone in this story.

    Diana switches into her Wonder Woman costume, escapes from her confinement, abducts Lila, and gets the entire story out of her. Including what a horrible person Diana Prince is. They set out to rescue Steve, with Diana overtaking a speedboat while swimming, with Lila in tow. She's not flying yet!

    Diana used sympathy to interrogate Lila, against the German spy Gross she simply dunks him in the Potomac. Then she asks Etta Candy and the Holliday girls for assistance via the mental radio, which Etta is just demonstrating.

    Steve is captured by the German spies, but Eve escapes with the secret documents. She is in turn captured by the Holliday girls. Steve is tortured, but is rescued by Wonder Woman, who throws a large anchor at some of the spies. No no-kill rule here, that thing must weigh well over a ton.

    Meanwhile, the Holliday girls "initiate" Eve into their sorority, via blindfolds and spanking. Wonder Woman tells Etta that they used torture on Eve, but Eve says that they managed to make her understand how poorly she had behaved, and that she loved her country.

    The adventure ends with Steve Trevor getting all the credit for the successful conclusion, and Steve Trevor pays no attention to Diana. It is even lampshaded in the closing frame with Diana. Marston thus gives really good example of feminist critique, with women being treated as invisible by the men around them, and it is even done by the best of men (Steve Trevor). Instead Lila is the only one who truly sees Diana, but at the same time Lila works against Diana. Marston both exposes one prejudice men have about women (by not seeing them) while strengthening another (that women are constantly intriguing against each other).

    Concepts introduced: Diana as secretary, Amazon perfect memory, mental radio, lie detector, BDSM (here disapproved by Diana), training giving hypercompetence

    Characters introduced: Eve and Lila Brown

  15. #60
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    In his book, THE GREAT COMIC BOOK HEROES (1965, p. 45), Jules Feiffer says, “Wonder Woman seemed like too much of a put-up job, a fixed comic strip--a product of group thinking rather than the individual inspiration that created Superman.”

    I don’t agree with his assessment, but I can imagine how Feiffer came to his opinion. His book recapitulates what he thought as a kid reading those comics as they came out. What the young Jules actually admires in most super-hero comics are the raw attempts by young talents to live up to the models set in the comic strips. Himself a promising creator, Feiffer probably saw those other young talents beating the path he could follow.

    Wonder Woman was created by older professional folks and she was the indirect result of the Editorial Advisory Board that M.C. Gaines had established. That’s how Marston and Gaines first came in contact and how the idea for a Wonder Woman was first proposed. In fact, the name “Charles Moulton” is the combination of their two middle names.

    Feiffer writes, “It was obvious from the start that a bunch of men got together in a smoke filled room and brainstormed themselves a Super Lady. But nobody’s heart was in it. It was choppily written and dully drawn.”

    The house ad for SENSATION COMICS No. 1 (January 1942) included a letter from Gene Tunney to M.C. Gaines. Lt. Commander Tunney was one of the members of the Editorial Advisory Board, their names listed on the inside front cover page of all the DC titles at this time. Gaines must have been known as “Charley,” because this is the name that Gene Tunney used in the letter.



    M. C. Gaines was, of course, the publisher and editor-in-chief of the All-American line of comics, which had a distribution deal with National Allied/Detective Comics (DC). His full name was Maxwell Charles Gaines--so he and William Moulton Marston combined their middle names to come up with “Charles Moulton” who was the credited author of all Wonder Woman stories for the next twenty plus years.

    Sheldon Mayer was the story editor and assistant to Gaines, while H.G. Peter was the Wonder Woman artist--so it was a group of men who supposedly got together to brainstorm this Super Lady. What no one knew, until many decades later, was that there were also women contributing to this creative process.



    The congratulatory letter from Lt. Commander Tunney is also published on the inside cover page of SENSATION COMICS No. 1. The “Fighting Marine” Gene Tunney was the former Heavy Weight Champion having won the title in the 1920s, in contests against Jack Dempsey, who had held the title before Tunney.

    The second issue of SENSATION COMICS has a letter from Dempsey on its inside cover page, with well-wishes.


    Then on the inside cover page of SENSATION COMICS No. 3 (March 1942), a letter from yet another champ appears--

    Dear Mr. Gaines:

    I saw what your good friends, Gene Tunney and Jack Dempsey said about WONDER WOMAN in SENSATION COMICS #1 and #2. It certainly was swell of them.

    Would you like to know what the other characters in SENSATION COMICS think of her?

    Well, MR. TERRIFIC, THE GAY GHOST, THE BLACK PIRATE, LITTLE BOY BLUE and I think she’s absolutely “the tops”, and we’re all mighty proud to appear in SENSATION COMICS with her every month!

    Sincerely yours,

    TED GRANT (Heavyweight
    Champion, alias WILDCAT)
    Can you take me back where I came from?
    Brother, can you take me back?

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