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  1. #211
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I do enjoy a good revolution on occasion.

    Particularly if done by the Beatles......though after my daughter watched that Minions movie a billion times now all I hear is that little yellow bastard singing it.......
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #212
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I do enjoy a good revolution on occasion.

    Particularly if done by the Beatles......though after my daughter watched that Minions movie a billion times now all I hear is that little yellow bastard singing it.......
    Heh. My condolences, Ascended.
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

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  3. #213
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Good news for alan moore then if its that easy.
    This is not the same situation, but even if it was, Moore could have recovered the rights for Watchmen five times over if he really wanted to, at this point. He chose to make a point, which is his prerogative, but the Watchmen contract is not the be all end all of of contracts and practices in the comics industry. Quite the contrary in fact, which is part of the problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    For no apparent reason he walked into editorial office asked for his rights back and for no apparent reason found DC entirely amenable to returning them. What a charmingly whimsical day for all concerned. What a fortuitous day for him tho - all development money paid and his own IP. Many have walked in before and asked for their contracts to be torn up or their IP returned and found DC in an entirely different mood. A historic day for all creators.

    And I'm sure DC paid up the artist, letterer, and colourist for their contracts as they are now out of work too.
    Ok, first of all, we know only 2 things: DC decided to not publish the book, and DC agreed to to give the rights back to it's creators. We don't know about dev money, we don't know why DC did either of these things, and we don't how amicable this decision was (but, according to Russel, it was pretty amicable). That said, this situation is not an aberration in cases like this: Just look at PaD's "Fallen Angel", Garth Ennis' "The Boys" or Paul Cornell's "Saucer County", just to remain in somewhat recent examples.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  4. #214
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    CANCELLED:

    DC has informed retailers that the upcoming Vertigo series Second Coming has been canceled, and that "these issues will not be resolicited."

    The publisher did not share the reason for the decision. However, this comes after an online petition asking that the series be "pulled" due to it being "inappropriate and blasphemous" with its usage of the religious figure Jesus Christ. At last count, the petition was signed by over 227,000 individuals.

    https://www.newsarama.com/43906-dc-s...-canceled.html

  5. #215
    Fantastic Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    DC is a company out to make money....PERIOD! So is Marvel, Image, Nabisco, Samsung, and every other company that sells products. DC decided NOT to release the book. Whether it was due to pressure from a religious or political group, or from someone internally at DC deciding that the release of this title just isn't worth it, it really doesn't matter. DC doesn't want to release it!! If that really pi**es you off to the point that you hate DC Comics then stop buying their product...plain and simple.
    DC could've kept the product, paid the creators their fees and squashed the entire thing from seeing the light of day. That is NOT what they did. Instead, they agreed to walk away from the project and allow the creators to maintain all rights to it and take it to another publisher...which they will do (and probably sell many more copies due to all of this press then it ever would've sold on it's own merit!).
    Am I against the project? Absolutely not. I'm sure I'll read it once it's released. I enjoy other titles such as PREACHER, LUCIFER, and other "controversial" titles. Heck I even bought "Satan's Sodomy ($@#%*) Baby (2007)". I don't think books get more controversial than that one.
    To all the whiners droning on about this, I would say: If you don't like the company, don't buy the product!
    I'm a DC fan boy that's been buying comics since the 70's. My collection spanned over 6,000 titles until I sold them a few years ago due to moving and no longer having the room (my collection is now mostly digital). I'll always be a DC fan and characters like Batman and Superman are so dear to my heart!

  6. #216
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    As suspected, DC's growing penis phobia is at least partially to blame for the books cancellation...

    https://www.cbr.com/second-coming-je...-cancellation/
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  7. #217
    Fantastic Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    As suspected, DC's growing penis phobia is at least partially to blame for the books cancellation...

    https://www.cbr.com/second-coming-je...-cancellation/
    So it sounds like DC made the right decision to cancel it and allow the creators to take it elsewhere. If DC wanted to make changes and the artists didn't want to alter their product, then releasing them from the contract was the right thing to do (for both sides). DC didn't want the book (or the publicity to go with it) and the creators get to take it to another publisher. The feed generated from this "scandal" will definitely generate more money for the creators in the long run.

  8. #218
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    DC is a company out to make money....PERIOD! So is Marvel, Image, Nabisco, Samsung, and every other company that sells products. DC decided NOT to release the book. Whether it was due to pressure from a religious or political group, or from someone internally at DC deciding that the release of this title just isn't worth it, it really doesn't matter. DC doesn't want to release it!! If that really pi**es you off to the point that you hate DC Comics then stop buying their product...plain and simple.
    DC could've kept the product, paid the creators their fees and squashed the entire thing from seeing the light of day. That is NOT what they did. Instead, they agreed to walk away from the project and allow the creators to maintain all rights to it and take it to another publisher...which they will do (and probably sell many more copies due to all of this press then it ever would've sold on it's own merit!).
    Am I against the project? Absolutely not. I'm sure I'll read it once it's released. I enjoy other titles such as PREACHER, LUCIFER, and other "controversial" titles. Heck I even bought "Satan's Sodomy ($@#%*) Baby (2007)". I don't think books get more controversial than that one.
    To all the whiners droning on about this, I would say: If you don't like the company, don't buy the product!
    I'm a DC fan boy that's been buying comics since the 70's. My collection spanned over 6,000 titles until I sold them a few years ago due to moving and no longer having the room (my collection is now mostly digital). I'll always be a DC fan and characters like Batman and Superman are so dear to my heart!
    All of this is a fallacy.

    DC pulled this book after having asked the writers to purge the book of its most divisive elements. It was censorship and then craven submission to right-wing Christians losing their **** because someone dare to poke fun at their god.

  9. #219
    Fantastic Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    All of this is a fallacy.

    DC pulled this book after having asked the writers to purge the book of its most divisive elements. It was censorship and then craven submission to right-wing Christians losing their **** because someone dare to poke fun at their god.
    Ok.. and IF that's true, then I applaud DC for standing up and pulling it! You may have your opinions on it and that's perfectly fine. DC is a publishing company, free to print what they want (and chose not to print what they don't want)... so what's your problem? DC didn't WANT to print it. Deal with it. Drop your DC based avatar and switch to Marvel if you think DC is so evil.

  10. #220
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    Ok.. and IF that's true, then I applaud DC for standing up and pulling it! You may have your opinions on it and that's perfectly fine. DC is a publishing company, free to print what they want (and chose not to print what they don't want)... so what's your problem? DC didn't WANT to print it. Deal with it. Drop your DC based avatar and switch to Marvel if you think DC is so evil.
    My problem is that DC's higher ups seems to be craven and want to avoid anything which could be seen as divisive in an imprint meant to produce such works.

    DC can publish whatever it wants.

    What it can't do is pull the plug on a project it had green-lighted when the worst reactionary masses voice their opinion and threaten you. It's not the way to do. DC should have given carte blanche to the creators and told the opponents of the book to **** off. Instead, they basically buried the book, because they set precedence in the mind of the enemies of this book and the next publisher who will try to released it will be dogged with an even more violent campaign.

    It's also speak really badly of the new rulers of DC, from WB, who seems to lose it at the sight of a penis' shape, which as a French I find utterly pathetic.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    My problem is that DC's higher ups seems to be craven and want to avoid anything which could be seen as divisive in an imprint meant to produce such works.

    DC can publish whatever it wants.

    What it can't do is pull the plug on a project it had green-lighted when the worst reactionary masses voice their opinion and threaten you. It's not the way to do. DC should have given carte blanche to the creators and told the opponents of the book to **** off. Instead, they basically buried the book, because they set precedence in the mind of the enemies of this book and the next publisher who will try to released it will be dogged with an even more violent campaign.

    It's also speak really badly of the new rulers of DC, from WB, who seems to lose it at the sight of a penis' shape, which as a French I find utterly pathetic.
    But they didn't pull the plug. The writer asked for the rights back and they gave it to him.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    Ok.. and IF that's true, then I applaud DC for standing up and pulling it! You may have your opinions on it and that's perfectly fine. DC is a publishing company, free to print what they want (and chose not to print what they don't want)... so what's your problem? DC didn't WANT to print it. Deal with it. Drop your DC based avatar and switch to Marvel if you think DC is so evil.
    I don’t usually quote full posts but this is so spot on that I wish I’d written it.

    Why is it people find it ‘ok’ to make fun of and snark on Jesus, Christianity and Christians but completelynrun from doing the same to other religions like the Muslim faith for fear of offending Muslims?

  13. #223
    Fantastic Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    My problem is that DC's higher ups seems to be craven and want to avoid anything which could be seen as divisive in an imprint meant to produce such works.
    You have every right to feel that way! Just as DC (and every other corporation that exists to make money) has a right to do what they did. If you don't agree with it then the best way to speak out against them is to NOT buy their product.

    DC can publish whatever it wants.
    Yes, they can

    What it can't do is pull the plug on a project it had green-lighted when the worst reactionary masses voice their opinion and threaten you. It's not the way to do. DC should have given carte blanche to the creators and told the opponents of the book to **** off. Instead, they basically buried the book, because they set precedence in the mind of the enemies of this book and the next publisher who will try to released it will be dogged with an even more violent campaign.
    Well, you are wrong there. DC CAN do exactly what you just said the cannot do. They can buy the product from the seller, pay for it, and never release it if they choose to do so. If that decision happens to break the contract then the seller can choose to sue DC for breach of contract (IF there is a breach) or they can take the product elsewhere (IF DC releases it back to them....which in this case they have done). Again, IF DC caved in to a political or religious group, then perhaps many will feel that it was wrong for them to do so, but at the end of the day it IS their decision. To anyone that feels so strongly about that then again, speak with your wallets and choose to say goodbye to your favorite superhero stories because you feel so betrayed. That is your right as a consumer. And again....DC did nothing even remotely close to "burying the book". They've pretty much guaranteed the book to have better sales at another company.

    It's also speak really badly of the new rulers of DC, from WB, who seems to lose it at the sight of a penis' shape, which as a French I find utterly pathetic.
    I can't speak for the new "rulers" of DC. Personally, I haven't been a fan of the DiDio regime when it comes to a lot of executive decisions over the last few years. As to your remarks about them losing it at the site of a penis, well personally I'd prefer not to see any penises in my superhero comics. I think people tend to forget about the fact comic books (for the most part) are meant to be escapist fun aimed at children and young adults. But hey...that's just MY opinion. You are free to feel otherwise.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    I kind of can't believe just how many people are standing up for DC on this. This isn't a question of "censorship" because such a thing doesn't really apply to private companies but is about a comic book company that was once the company of Watchmen, Preacher and Morrison's Animal Man; boundary pushing in a way that Marvel seldom was. Now, they're wimping out and toning down or cancelling anything that might be even vaguely controversial and are doing so in a way that has little rhyme or reason. Just a few months ago Vertigo and Black Label were heavily promoted as continuing in the great tradition of DC of the '80s and '90s, now they've been neutered to the point that they may as well be cancelled. Even Mister Miracle, a notably adults-only book, that was marked as such, still had its swearing distractingly censored. Comics have struggled for decades to be taken seriously and moves like this feel like a regression from a company that once led the way in showing the true potential of the comic book. Films, novels, TV shows, even video games, understand that different ttles can be geared towards different age groups and audiences; DC, as it stands, refuses to allow R-rated material to be shown in R-rated books and, even as Preacher enters its fourth season, the cmoc book company that spawned it acted in such a way as to cause the creators of a book that perhaps satirizes a religious figure to want to take it elsewhere - and for DC to readily agree to that.

    And, I'm sorry, but if you think that "safe" (though still often violent) superhero comics are all that DC is about then you clearly haven't been reading comics from the company for very long.
    Well said Ilan.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by bretmaverick2 View Post
    I don’t usually quote full posts but this is so spot on that I wish I’d written it.

    Why is it people find it ‘ok’ to make fun of and snark on Jesus, Christianity and Christians but completelynrun from doing the same to other religions like the Muslim faith for fear of offending Muslims?
    Its more a fear of dying....

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