So.... Jesus Is Getting His Own DC Comic

[Colt Cape]

I can already tell that the South Park Jesus will be way funnier than this nonsense.

[iron chimp]

Symbols of Thor were used by nazis and are still used by neo-fascist and extreme right wing groups, many of which are illegal or their activities monitored by european intelligence agencies.

[manwhohaseverything]

People are more worried about offense on Christianity and Islam because they know it's still widely worshipped today. People are not worried about Nordic and Greek Gods because for all they know, no one worship them anymore.

So it's more about social courtesy based on general knowledge.

As for lesser known religion, most people straight up still think that Wicca is the same as Satanism... or that Animism doesn't count as religion, because... I don't know... hundreds of years of colonialism and imperialism using religion as political tool probably, combined with certain bible directly said the other is the enemy... so it's up for grabs on who wins back then... I haven't read everything, but that seems the gist of the history of why some religion count and some don't, and how it differ in every country...

I have heard there are communities in greece who still worship their gods. Norse, i don't know anything about.
If it is just social courtesy then. why are hindu and shinto gods not only been used, but also poorly adapted and portrayed in both marvel and DC? (which, i don't mind). If that is the case they should stay clear of them,since hinduism is 3rd most followed "religion" in the world. And shintoism is dominant in japan. It seems social courtesy is less followed

[Restingvoice]

Yeah, I understand the reasons for the différences, but I find it kind of sad. Especially when it comes to Heathenry, which often venerate the Norse Gods and is in the midst of a culture war on itself.

Yeah, it's a testament of one-sided education. See, what you mention, I know nothing about. I don't even know that heathenry is considered a religion. I only know "heathen" as an insult. I think I did read the term being used in one of the religion history article I read, but since it's the only time I ever saw it, I'm not sure about its legitimacy.

[manwhohaseverything]

Symbols of Thor were used by nazis and are still used by neo-fascist and extreme right wing groups, many of which are illegal or their activities monitored by european intelligence agencies.

Nazi's also stole swastika from hinduism/other cultures and used it without knowing the meaning of it.So,i don't know why you brought that up. To show Nazi's appropriated other cultures? It is common knowledge.

[Restingvoice]

I have heard there are communities in greece who still worship their gods. Norse, i don't know anything about.
If it is just social courtesy then. why are hindu and shinto gods not only been used, but also poorly adapted and portrayed in both marvel and DC? (which, i don't mind). If that is the case they should stay clear of them,since hinduism is 3rd most followed "religion" in the world. And shintoism is dominant in japan. It seems social courtesy is less followed

Because they either don't know or don't care.
Of course there are people like that. We have people telling other people should die or stay out of the country because they happen to follow the same religion a terrorist group follow.

Ideally we don't want it to be like that but there it is.

Oh, and... I think how people react also matter, as the anger from Muslims when people draw Muhammad and from Christian on how they handle Jesus can shape what a creator or publisher considered okay. Silence can be used as an excuse, although of course there are creators that 100% don't care because "freedom of expression"

[iron chimp]

Nazi's also stole swastika from hinduism/other cultures and used it without knowing the meaning of it.So,i don't know why you brought that up. To show Nazi's appropriated other cultures? It is common knowledge.

As a hindu go and live in a neighborhood where the symbols of thor are on display and you will understand very quickly.

There is a reason they dont have the same rights as other people in many places in northern europe

[Korath]

Yeah, it's a testament of one-sided education. See, what you mention, I know nothing about. I don't even know that heathenry is considered a religion. I only know "heathen" as an insult. I think I did read the term being used in one of the religion history article I read, but since it's the only time I ever saw it, I'm not sure about its legitimacy.

Well, it's a very complicated part of Neo-Paganism (and I'm Wiccan, so I don't know much about Heathenry itself) but basically, there is those who proclaims that to worship those gods, you need to be of Scandinavian descent, and those who says that as long as they talk to you, among many other divides. Neo-Paganism is really a complicated mix of many, many, small religions.

[manwhohaseverything]

As a hindu go and live in a neighborhood where the symbols of thor are on display and you will understand very quickly.

There is a reason they dont have the same rights as other people in many places in northern europe

How does that make the symbol itself bad?just because some assholes decided to appropriated the symbol like thor's hammer and our swastika, does not mean that the symbol losses it's original meaning. And people still use swastika in asian countries, you know. And asians are not Nazi's last i checked. Many don't even know who the hell is hitler.
Keep in mind, i don't know the original meaning of thor's hammer which were used by the old norse. But i do know what swasthika or swasthi means. Go show a hindu a swasthi and they will bow to it.

[Captain Smith]

Just a general comment, when the normal run of superhero comics introduce deities, it becomes stupid. They are either aliens claiming to be gods (like the Marvel Pantheons) or. DC's New Gods, Source Wall confusion, some magicians (Dormammu), etc.

When you truly have a monotheistic omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, the creator of everything and good player - then you reduce all to trivia and have tremendous theodicy problems.

Such a deity probably would have stopped the COIE. Note the Voice, Source told the Spectre that Spec should have but screwed up.

[iron chimp]

How does that make the symbol itself bad?just because some assholes decided to appropriated the symbol like thor's hammer and our swastika, does not mean that the symbol losses it's original meaning. And people still use swastika in asian countries, you know. And asians are not Nazi's last i checked. Many don't even know who the hell is hitler.
Keep in mind, i don't know the original meaning of thor's hammer which were used by the old norse. But i do know what swasthika or swasthi means. Go show a hindu a swasthi and they will bow to it.

Because of context. You see swastikas in many saxon / germanic / nordic burial sites, jewelry etc where it is believed to be a symbol of thor. This is a very different meaning of the symbol to the sanskrit.

See a hindu with a swastika and its all good. See a northern european with a swastika and its probably all bad.

Ironically it was 2 jews who helped reclaim thor and other nordic gods from neo fascists so that we can all enjoy the stories and imagery free from their politics. However, anyone who claimed to be a follower of germanic religion but objected to the portrayal in comics... i would be very sceptical of their motives.

[manwhohaseverything]

Because of context. You see swastikas in many saxon / germanic / nordic burial sites, jewelry etc where it is believed to be a symbol of thor. This is a very different meaning of the symbol to the sanskrit.

See a hindu with a swastika and its all good. See a northern european with a swastika and its probably all bad.

swastika the word itself is sanskrit. Sure the pattern might have been used by different sects around the world. But nazi's calling their symbol swastika itself makes it clear that it was appropriated from india.so,the hindu meaning is what counts.

It was during the colonisation by the British. Max muller had a theory called "aryan invasion theory" . Which stated that aryan invaded and beat local dravidians during the end of indus valley civilisation. This in now changed to "aryan migration theory" because lack of evidence . The Nazi germans took this theory and ran with it for propaganda .british used it, to weaken the freedom struggle by dividing the indians(into indo aryans and dravidian) and explain the caste system. Aryan is sanskrit word as well. It was not meant as race. It means "one who does noble/great deeds". It had nothing to do with race. India was called "aryavarta", in our texts. Which meant place "where such noble/great people lived".sort of like the Chinese called themselves "the middle kingdom" .

This whole thing is based on existence of similarities between languages like sanskrit and European languages. Which were later categorised as Indo-European languages.

So, i think it came from india and it was appropriated by the nazi's.since the words used for the pattern and the word "aryan" come from sanskrit.

I could be wrong here my history is not great.

[Ascended]

Symbols of Thor were used by nazis and are still used by neo-fascist and extreme right wing groups, many of which are illegal or their activities monitored by european intelligence agencies.

I've heard that. I'm far from an expert on Norse mythology, but I don't recall ever seeing anything that obviously lent itself easily to their kind of racism and bigotry. At least no more than any other religion. I'm not a follower of Norse tradition, but a few of my ancestors were, and all these generations later hearing that the halls of Asgard have been appropriated by bigots makes me feel dirty.

The issue we get is when someone or some group as we have seen want to dictate what is acceptable based on what they think.

That's what everyone does. We do what we think is right......but that has very different meanings depending on who you are. Even the bigots think they're right, though how they can convince themselves of that is beyond me. Still, if people are good at one thing, it's self-deception.

You make a great example with Preacher, too. I find it a little odd that this Jeus-as-a-hero thing is getting more heat than Preacher, which went out of its way to be insulting and offensive to traditional religious types. It seems this series by Russel is just looking at the clash between faith and superheroes, which uses religious imagery all the time. Preacher was vile for the sake of being vile (and every panel was glorious genius).

I think you don't mean to, but that is basically double standard. Muslims are minority, i get that. I also get that, they have suffered Bigotry. But that does not mean, i have to be afraid of their blasphemy law. Or follow any of the other stupid thing in their holy book or culture

Less double standard and more common courtesy. As I've said, I have no issue with any religion being made fun of, explored, challenged, whatever. But if someone asked me to write such a tale, I'd probably look at other religions before poking fun at Muslims, simply because they've got it hard enough already these days. But I'll laugh at a joke aimed at them just as quickly as I'll laugh at a joke aimed at christians, atheists, or anyone else; there's no limit to what is "proper" in this case (to my mind of course) but I also see little appeal in rubbing salt in the wound or going for the easy joke.

Pardon me, this is not 12th century. Blasphemy is stupid. There are a lot of things in the bible that has not been taken seriously.so, same applies to muslims with quran. And i am not even sure, it is even in the quran.

Im confused; are you saying its stupid to blasphemy in the 21st century, or that the idea of blasphemy is?

And the other thing you mentioned krishna and buddha. Buddha is not a god, nor a prophet of any kind. He himself was semi agnostic.so satirising him is alright. Even if he was a god or something else go for it. As long as it does not have malicious intent.

No, he's not a god but he is the focus of a large faith, which is part of why I mentioned him. Additionally, because he's not a god I was wondering if that made a difference as well. (I forgot that question earlier, I think)

So the same rule applies, as long as there is no malicious intent behind it.

That's how I see it too. Actually, I won't even draw the line at "malicious" if the work is challenging a religion's claims in an intelligent and thought provoking way. Nothing should be immune to scrutiny, I think, nor take itself so seriously that it can't laugh at itself or allow others to laugh at it.

I sure would have loved that kind of reaction when Hecate, an important part of many Wiccan Covens and Traditions' was used as a villain in JLD : The Witching Hour.

Or Loki, Thor, and any of the Pagan Gods and Goddesses, who are no less valid to whorship than the Monotheist one.

Just saying.

Pagan beliefs have been misunderstood and misrepresented for so long, I'm not sure how Pagans would react if the world suddenly started seeing them for what they are instead of what Hollywood tells people they are. And there are so many different factions within that all-encompassing label of "pagan" that you'll find bits of virtually every major religion that has ever existed mixed in somewhere; what one group may find insulting might make another laugh. For example, in the Wiccan traditions I'm familiar with, it goes against custom to speak of your faith at all unless asked, even down to identifying yourself as Wiccan (outside of a few exceptions). But Korath obviously doesn't fall under that custom, and likely follows a different path than the one I know most about, yet both are still Wiccan.

[Agent Z]

Just a general comment, when the normal run of superhero comics introduce deities, it becomes stupid. They are either aliens claiming to be gods (like the Marvel Pantheons) or. DC's New Gods, Source Wall confusion, some magicians (Dormammu), etc.

When you truly have a monotheistic omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, the creator of everything and good player - then you reduce all to trivia and have tremendous theodicy problems.

Such a deity probably would have stopped the COIE. Note the Voice, Source told the Spectre that Spec should have but screwed up.

Both DC and Marvel have used actual pantheons as opposed to aliens.

[Daniel22]

I didn't know that there was much debate as to whether Christianity is mythology. I thought it was widely accepted to by mythology. I'm interested to hear from those who believe it is different than other mythologies. I guess the main point is that it is currently in the religion state of the cult-religion-myth cycle, but is there more than that? I get the reasons it is treated differently in practice, but theoretically what is the difference?