Hench for Hire: Taskmaster & Ant-Man Appreciation 2019

[Michael Watkins]

Nick has written Taskmaster as uber-competent before in Secret Avengers and Ant-Man. But he's said that one of the reasons he likes him is that he's pretty unpredictable in how he can be portrayed with his working class villain status. He's really a great character because he can very easily do both. And even in ASM, the Vulture capture went off without a problem.

well said. Kraven wouldn't have hired him if he were an incompetent. and, far as I know, he's still employed by the Nation of Baggalia.

[Michael Watkins]

The only problem I have with Spencer's take is that it seems to drag Taskmaster down to O'Grady's level rather than elevate O'Grady. In the AMAZING SPIDER-MAN appearances they were referred to as "a couple of washout hired guns". Taskmaster should never be considered a washout--he is supposed to be one of the most highly skilled combatants in the MU and highly regarded as a trainer. He has been used to train villains and heroes alike, as well as his various schools of henchmen for hire. But since forming this buddy partnership with O'Grady--who is a bit of a goofball--it seems like Taskmaster is getting tarred with the same goofball brush and is getting less respect.

Don't get me wrong; I really enjoy the partnership between the two. I'd just prefer it to not result in Taskmaster getting regarded as a joke or a loser.

Spencer treats most villains that way. he probably prefers villains who are "bottom rung" (see: Boomerang). but, personally, I haven't seen much of a downgrade on Taskmaster's part. he's just as formidable as he was when he was having his circus operation broken up. it's most certainly the same speech pattern and general seriousness that Taskmaster demonstrated in the Avengers: The Initiative book. and Eric is not on his level. Eric is his sidekick and former student. Spider-man called them washouts. and the Avengers lineup that they were a part of did wash out. the two of them bailed during the final fight. because that's their level. they don't have grand ambitions. they just want to make money and not get hurt. this was the impression that I took from Taskmaster's Dark Reign focus issue. he tried the big leagues and ended up hospitalized.

[Michael Watkins]

My big problem with Black Ant is that Eric should never have become a super villain, he’s much better and interesting as a jerk who secretly wants to be better as a hero. Scott’s need to be the sole heroic Ant Man essentially forced Eric into that role via the whole evil LMD stick. I still someday hope that the real Irredeemable Ant Man will return and beat the crap out of his dark twin, who for example joined HYDRA in Secret Empire when even the real Eric would never do that, given the organisation murdered his best friend in front of him...

I don’t mind him having super villains like Taskmaster and Black Fox for friends, but making him a super villain himself just made him uninteresting.

there is room for all views. I would be bored out of my mind if Eric were a hero. that's what very predictably led to his death. he was a watered down version of Eric who was trying to make up for past misdeeds. people would treat him as if he were a jerk. but he didn't do anything jerk-y. Flash was a bigger tool in Secret Avengers than Eric. why would anyone who likes Eric want that for him? Spencer's take is faithful to the portrayal of Eric during Secret Invasion. he and Taskmaster engage in criminal acts. but, within the rules of the marvel universe, they aren't truly villains. they don't have an agenda or an ambition to hurt others. they simply take jobs same as Paladin or Dominic Fortune. Eric is doing what he was trained to do; as a shield agent, as a camp Hammond cadet, as a thunderbolt, and a secret avenger. and I never believed that Eric secretly wanted to be a hero. we saw his inner thought. he didn't want that responsibility. he constantly tells you who he is. go reread him trying to convince Paladin to kill Osborn. in a way, we're seeing Eric living his dream; as a remora on a shark. Taskmaster has replaced Mitch Carson from the original Irredeemable Ant-Man series.

[VGCinema]

Nick has written Taskmaster as uber-competent before in Secret Avengers and Ant-Man. But he's said that one of the reasons he likes him is that he's pretty unpredictable in how he can be portrayed with his working class villain status. He's really a great character because he can very easily do both. And even in ASM, the Vulture capture went off without a problem.

Yeah, that's a good point honestly. I can't fault Nick for that and honestly that's a pretty unique reason to like a character and something I've never really thought about before. I guess I should've said that him being more serious is more just a preference than a rule for me, like I said I do think him and Black Ant are hilarious together.

[Dermie]

Spencer treats most villains that way.

True--and while it is often entertaining, it does occasionally undermine good lower-level villains. One example is Speed Demon. I loved Spencer's SUPERIOR FOES OF SPIDER-MAN series, but Speed Demon was treated as a lot less competent there than he was during his NEW THUNDERBOLTS stint, where he was tolerated despite his attitude (and being a Hydra spy) because he was one of the most capable and effective members of the team. I love Spencer's way of bringing out comedic aspects with the characters, and I love the fact that he tends to do more character and personality work with the villains than tends to happen in a lot of other books. I just worry that there is a fine line with his comedic approach between bringing out the humour in the character and actually making the character himself come across as a joke.

but, personally, I haven't seen much of a downgrade on Taskmaster's part. he's just as formidable as he was when he was having his circus operation broken up. it's most certainly the same speech pattern and general seriousness that Taskmaster demonstrated in the Avengers: The Initiative book.

I guess that's true. I think what's gotten to me is thatg Taskmaster and Black Ant have been described as losers a few times now when paired in Spencer's books. It happened in "Secret Empire", it happened with Spider-Man, etc. Granted, the Hydra woman was an arrogant and condescending snob, and Spidey disrespects everyone, but it stuck in my head.

[Rosebunse]

Spencer treats most villains that way. he probably prefers villains who are "bottom rung" (see: Boomerang). but, personally, I haven't seen much of a downgrade on Taskmaster's part. he's just as formidable as he was when he was having his circus operation broken up. it's most certainly the same speech pattern and general seriousness that Taskmaster demonstrated in the Avengers: The Initiative book. and Eric is not on his level. Eric is his sidekick and former student. Spider-man called them washouts. and the Avengers lineup that they were a part of did wash out. the two of them bailed during the final fight. because that's their level. they don't have grand ambitions. they just want to make money and not get hurt. this was the impression that I took from Taskmaster's Dark Reign focus issue. he tried the big leagues and ended up hospitalized.

Dark Reign should be called: The Peter Principal in Action.

Norman Osborn hired a bunch of people who were great when it came to street level stuff. And the people he hired all seemed to think that they were ready for the big leagues, only to get curbstombed by practically every higher tier hero they came in contact with.

Except for the Punisher, who was defeated by Daken because Daken had a fast-acting healing factor, the body of a 25-year-old, and he wasn't holding back like Wolverine might.

[K7P5V]

Captain America #334 will always be my favorite Taskmaster appearance. After John Walker is appointed the new Captain America, Taskmaster is brought in to show Walker the ropes and how to properly use Cap's shield. All the while, Walker's thoughts are of Taskmaster's possible subterfuge in his training.

[Michael Watkins]

Captain America #334 will always be my favorite Taskmaster appearance. After John Walker is appointed the new Captain America, Taskmaster is brought in to show Walker the ropes and how to properly use Cap's shield. All the while, Walker's thoughts are of Taskmaster's possible subterfuge in his training.

I haven't read that one. but I've been doing a lot of backissue shopping recently. last taskmaster story I read was him challenging Tombstone to some kind of assassin-off. and, before that, it was a one-off in Spider-man's book. I guess my favorite depiction of him was in the Udon series.

[Michael Watkins]

Dark Reign should be called: The Peter Principal in Action.

Norman Osborn hired a bunch of people who were great when it came to street level stuff. And the people he hired all seemed to think that they were ready for the big leagues, only to get curbstombed by practically every higher tier hero they came in contact with.

Except for the Punisher, who was defeated by Daken because Daken had a fast-acting healing factor, the body of a 25-year-old, and he wasn't holding back like Wolverine might.

that and it was all set-up for Frankencastle (the weird stuff that they do with the Punisher). I really felt bad for Taskmaster in that era. it was going to be really hard to say no to Osborn. he already got flattened during Civil War. those medical expenses add up.

[K7P5V]

I haven't read that one. but I've been doing a lot of backissue shopping recently. last taskmaster story I read was him challenging Tombstone to some kind of assassin-off. and, before that, it was a one-off in Spider-man's book. I guess my favorite depiction of him was in the Udon series.

Awesome. The Udon series is also in my collection. Although speaking honestly, I don't remember too much from this series except that it was the first appearance of Sandi Brandenburg (she was gambling and caught the Taskmaster's eye, if I remember correctly).

[Michael Watkins]

True--and while it is often entertaining, it does occasionally undermine good lower-level villains. One example is Speed Demon. I loved Spencer's SUPERIOR FOES OF SPIDER-MAN series, but Speed Demon was treated as a lot less competent there than he was during his NEW THUNDERBOLTS stint, where he was tolerated despite his attitude (and being a Hydra spy) because he was one of the most capable and effective members of the team. I love Spencer's way of bringing out comedic aspects with the characters, and I love the fact that he tends to do more character and personality work with the villains than tends to happen in a lot of other books. I just worry that there is a fine line with his comedic approach between bringing out the humour in the character and actually making the character himself come across as a joke.

it's a potential risk. but the character has survived some real embarrassing encounters that haven't permanently ruined his reputation. he was portrayed as both a dullard and a spastic in Secret Avengers. and I can think of 4 occasions where he fought someone hand-to-hand who overcame his photographic reflexes by simply fighting unconventionally. then there were other times where he was allowed to handedly defeat an opponent (Iron Man, a Helicarrier full of SHIELD agents, Daken, etc) to showcase his photographic reflexes. he's unique enough that I don't worry much about his long term image. i'd argue that part of his image is that he's a scam artist. he was feeding off the villain community (and occasionally the government) by "training" cannon fodder. his respectability is based mostly on being designed by popular marvel creators and being around a long time. in universe, he never seems to hurt for work. he's still treated with respect in Old Man Hawkeye, at least.

[Rosebunse]

that and it was all set-up for Frankencastle (the weird stuff that they do with the Punisher). I really felt bad for Taskmaster in that era. it was going to be really hard to say no to Osborn. he already got flattened during Civil War. those medical expenses add up.

FrankenCastle was a pretty good run, though.

Thinking back on Civil War and Dark Reign and even Secret Empire and it's no wonder Taskmaster might like the idea of just hanging out with Eric and running some smaller scams and schemes.

They have fun, it's sort of easy and involves known entities that are at his level, and the money isn't too bad. And no Osborn or Nazis!

[Michael Watkins]

As a general question to the board, what origin do you prefer for Taskmaster?

A) SHIELD agent who injected himself with the last of a super soldier serum that alters his memory

B) born with photographic reflexes

and, secondly, what's your preference for what he looks like beneath the mask?

A) what mask?
B) his depiction in Taskmaster: Unthinkable
C) mostly scar tissue from several plastic surgeries
D) something else

[Michael Watkins]

[Michael Watkins]

and i'm going to assume that Black Ant had his face fixed some time after being detonated in the Illuminati series and being under nu-Hydra's employ. I'll always regret not meeting the "girl from processing." wonder if she was arrested.