The "It wasn't as bad as people said it was" thread.

[SuperiorIronman]

This is probably one for that Godzilla thread but;
Godzilla 1998: Yeah it's not that great but compared to the ones from the time and yeah, its alright. It's not incredible but outside of the middle of the movie where the love interest comes back, the movie overall does a pretty good job. I also do kind of like this take on Godzilla Jr. where they are indeed a direct threat to humans outside of them being a threat as a byproduct. It makes the worst case scenario at the end all the more valid because Godzilla does some considerable damage when he does attack and the only reason he doesn't normally is because he's expecting. So an island full of them of all sizes? Yeah that's kind of scary.

Godzilla Giant monsters all out attack: Y'know the one where Godzilla is the out and out bad guy and Ghidorah is the defender of Japan? Absolute brutal Godzilla and his attack scene is probably the most malicious he's ever been. I've seen people not give it a chance because Godzilla is the bad guy but it's worth it and even more for the political commentary if that's your kind of thing.

[SuperiorIronman]

I was looking over videos and articles from people about why they hated "The Last Jedi" and I think that, by and large, they have legitimate complaints. I liked it on a fun level as simply a decent action movie but I realize it ignores established facts and continuity of the SW universe as well as having other faults.

I stumbled onto an article about why critics and audiences so often disagree, an article that seemed to be about "The Last Jedi" but was really just using it a springboard for the critics vs audiences discussion.

I think one of the biggest differences is that professional reviewers are trained to believe that possibly the greatest sin a reviewer can ever commit is to judge a work by outside standards rather than on it's own merits. Unfortunately, they tend to consider even other movies in the same series to be outside standards. Judging a work as bad because that's not how you wanted the story to go would be another false standard, the argument of personal preference.

Of course, there are endless problems with "The Last Jedi". Hyperspace doesn't work the way it worked in all previous Star Wars movies. Instead of going into another dimension, now it's suddenly just going really fast so now a ship can ram another ship by going to hyper-speed. Wow, they should have just had some automated droids in ships go to hyper-speed and ram the Death Star back in the first movie.

Sneaking in endless social messages, some very forced and badly presented.

Pointless subplots that took up a half hour and ended up being meaningless (Finn and Rose's little trip where they met the Collector, I mean Benito del Toro who I cannot believe was ever, for one nano-second, considered for the role of Khan Noonien Singh).

Nauseating speeches about love coming from someone who prevented a heroic sacrifice and herself caused the deaths of numerous fellow soldiers by doing so.

Constant three ring circus surprises done simply for the shock value and because they were unexpected with no regard whatsoever for whether they made any sense or were dramatically fulfilling. In fact, in most cases, they were surprises specifically because they made no sense.

Characters being there and some being killed with no background or explanation for who they were to begin with (I'm thinking about Snoke).

Jedi suddenly having powers quantum leaps beyond anything they ever had before and even "Force Ghosts" being able to do things vastly beyond what they ever could before.

And, of course, that thirty years later, the Empire (oh, sorry, I mean the Black Order) is still around and it's all just a rehash of the original trilogy.

Outside of the explanation of what Hyperspace is, Hyperspace travel starts and ends with them moving really fast and the ships carry momentum with them. In the prior feature Rogue One, Darth Vader's ship actually does this with it coming out of Hyperspace and plowing through another ship. Yes it's smaller but the point is that the momentum assisted in destroying it. You can't do that sort of thing to the Death Star not only because of it's armament and fleet which is to protect it (hence why they needed smaller ships), but the armor is also too thick. Sure people react to the damage the station receives but nobody is that injured and those that are mattered little, they could still keep up the defense. Also with a station that is roughly the size of a small moon, a single ship isn't going to do it especially considering that it's weak point was inside the reactor shaft. Meaning that sure you could ram it, but the station is still functioning. The Alliance also does not have the resources to just do that hence the need to steal ships and equipment not to mention that they also literally just lost their backers on Alderaan.

The Emperor didn't get a background until the Prequels and we knew very little about Vader or Obi Wan's relationship with Anakin until then.

Luke is the son of the Chosen One so there is some element of genetics being a factor in the Force. Also Luke wasn't as powerful in the OT because he was originally active for only a few years (about 4). The PT Jedi didn't display said ability not only because it wasn't needed, but Kylo Ren even notes that said ability can kill someone and the only reason it worked for Kylo and Rey was because Snoke was helping make the connection. As a result Luke dies. It's more than lifting rocks and even the original continuity showed that even crazier shit could be done with the force like becoming living armor and eating planets. The Clone Wars show even established that shape-shifting was on some level possible with the Son of Mortis.

The Empire was around in the original continuity and it played just fine. In-fact they are the ruling government in Legacy and are the good guys until the Sith reappear and even then the faction only splits with two sets of Stormtroopers.

[Powerboy]

Oh man! I am just tired. I better give up defending The Last Jedi. I think i have answered or tried to answer to all these criticisms. I love The Last Jedi. Its the best Star Wars movie since Return of The Jedi. Legitimately one of the best big budget blockbuster films i have seen in recent years. But its a film which divided Star Wars fanbase completely. Oh those were the days when the biggest gripe was that Rey happened to be a Mary Sue.

Perhaps you are right about taking a film as a series or as its own. And i respect the way you put your post.

Thanks. I've read some stuff since I made that post that has tempered my opinion.

I mean, there are legitimate complaints but they are complaints that could possibly be made about the prequels and somewhat even the original trilogy.

Ironically, the one thing you mentioned, the accusation of Rey being a Mary Sue, is something I'm middle of the road about.

I mean, a series of stories where a guy is born of a virgin, has a m-word count off the charts, highest reading ever, has reflexes beyond anyone else, is the Chosen One, etc. Yeah, no Mary Sue there.

Or his son who is parrying energy bolts with a lightsaber in his first lesson, is one of the best fighter pilots in an X-Wing with presumably no lessons we ever see or are ever referred to, who it is implied could pilot the Millenium Falcon if Han would let him, who can take out tie-fighter's with ship's guns that he has presumably never trained on or used before, and can channel the Force with enough proficiency to make that one in a million shot. Again, no Mary Sue there.

But Rey does it and, oh boy (or girl), Mary Sue all the way.

And she is. She's that character who is just gifted beyond all others and can do things with no training or after one lesson. Honestly, I don't get the big deal about Rey being able to do that stuff. She's James Bond. She's Luke or Anakin.

It actually reminds me of a story a friend told me. When he was a kid, his uncle was going to teach him how to ride a motorcycle. As with everyone I've ever known, including myself, the biggest problem was getting the hang of engaging the clutch into first gear. He got so frustrated with himself and felt he was a dunce because that's not how it happens in the movies. Characters in movies do things for the first time with no training or one lesson and are instantly great at them. It happens all the time. And I don't see not having famous genetics as a problem. She's the first of the great genetics in her family.

[Powerboy]

Outside of the explanation of what Hyperspace is, Hyperspace travel starts and ends with them moving really fast and the ships carry momentum with them. In the prior feature Rogue One, Darth Vader's ship actually does this with it coming out of Hyperspace and plowing through another ship. Yes it's smaller but the point is that the momentum assisted in destroying it. You can't do that sort of thing to the Death Star not only because of it's armament and fleet which is to protect it (hence why they needed smaller ships), but the armor is also too thick. Sure people react to the damage the station receives but nobody is that injured and those that are mattered little, they could still keep up the defense. Also with a station that is roughly the size of a small moon, a single ship isn't going to do it especially considering that it's weak point was inside the reactor shaft. Meaning that sure you could ram it, but the station is still functioning. The Alliance also does not have the resources to just do that hence the need to steal ships and equipment not to mention that they also literally just lost their backers on Alderaan.

The Emperor didn't get a background until the Prequels and we knew very little about Vader or Obi Wan's relationship with Anakin until then.

Luke is the son of the Chosen One so there is some element of genetics being a factor in the Force. Also Luke wasn't as powerful in the OT because he was originally active for only a few years (about 4). The PT Jedi didn't display said ability not only because it wasn't needed, but Kylo Ren even notes that said ability can kill someone and the only reason it worked for Kylo and Rey was because Snoke was helping make the connection. As a result Luke dies. It's more than lifting rocks and even the original continuity showed that even crazier shit could be done with the force like becoming living armor and eating planets. The Clone Wars show even established that shape-shifting was on some level possible with the Son of Mortis.

The Empire was around in the original continuity and it played just fine. In-fact they are the ruling government in Legacy and are the good guys until the Sith reappear and even then the faction only splits with two sets of Stormtroopers.

Definitely true. The Emperor is just the sinister bad guy until the prequels show where he came from.

It does seem Abrams set up for a lot of background and information in TFA and Johnson just threw it out and went in his own direction despite Abrams supposedly leaving copious details. Don't know if it irritated Abrams. Will be interesting to see if he comes back and fills out details of Rey's background and even Snoke's or even finds a way to bring Snoke back and veer things back to the direction he seemed to be taking them before Johnson veered them off in his preferred direction.

Interesting thing and I don't know how much truth there is to it but there is supposedly a quote from Johnson when he was starting as a director that his idea of a great movie is one where half the audience loves it and the other half hates it.

[TomServofan]

This is probably one for that Godzilla thread but;
Godzilla 1998: Yeah it's not that great but compared to the ones from the time and yeah, its alright. It's not incredible but outside of the middle of the movie where the love interest comes back, the movie overall does a pretty good job. I also do kind of like this take on Godzilla Jr. where they are indeed a direct threat to humans outside of them being a threat as a byproduct. It makes the worst case scenario at the end all the more valid because Godzilla does some considerable damage when he does attack and the only reason he doesn't normally is because he's expecting. So an island full of them of all sizes? Yeah that's kind of scary.

Godzilla Giant monsters all out attack: Y'know the one where Godzilla is the out and out bad guy and Ghidorah is the defender of Japan? Absolute brutal Godzilla and his attack scene is probably the most malicious he's ever been. I've seen people not give it a chance because Godzilla is the bad guy but it's worth it and even more for the political commentary if that's your kind of thing.

The problem with the film was that 1998's movie was Godzilla in name only and had little to do with the Japanese creature we all know and love, he's called Zilla by Toei afterall. I mean it's not so bad once you get past the name being Godzilla when it should had been called Beast from 40,000 Fantoms.

[Starter Set]

Erf, Godzilla 1998...I actually was foolish enough to pay and go watch it in theaters. To this day i still can't explain what motivated such a demented move. And Jean Reno is an actor i really love and to see him in that farce, man, it was painful.

Well, if i was to be a bit cynical i could say that Reno played in a lot of farces but i'm not a cynical man, no sir, i'm not!!

[Kirby101]

The problem with the film was that 1998's movie was Godzilla in name only and had little to do with the Japanese creature we all know and love, he's called Zilla by Toei afterall. I mean it's not so bad once you get past the name being Godzilla when it should had been called Beast from 40,000 Fantoms.

I liked Godzilla 1998 better than the plodding, overly serious Godzilla from 2014.

[sunofdarkchild]

In line with my post in the 'overhyped movies' thread, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.

I will never understand why this movie gets so much hate. It was a huge improvement over the first movie in that it was much better paced, had better action, and much better humor. It also got much better performaces from the child actors than the first movie and used John Williams' score effectively instead of obnoxiously overusing it like the first movie did.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Basic instinct 2, I felt Sharon Stone was hella creepy in that film.

AVP-R

BvS- to be fair it's more so divisive than outright hated.

SOLO

Day of The Dead remake (With AnnaLynne McCord)

Diary of the Dead

Zombie Diaries 1&2

Sucker Punch

Silent Hill

Warcraft

Friday the 13th-this is baffling how people hated it.

Speedracer

Life (Martin Lawrence, and Eddie Murphy)

Predator 2

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I liked Godzilla 1998 better than the plodding, overly serious Godzilla from 2014.

The 1998 remake had it's moments, I won't deny I liked it, especially with Matthew Broderick as THE most unlikely leading man in a kaiju movie. Hell, I half expected him to break into a rendition of "Danke Schoen".

[AdamFTF]

Solo, Green Lantern, John Carter, Oz the Great and Powerful, Titan A.E., Treasure Planet, the Ghostbusters reboot. A lot of movies that were flawed but not unenjoyable. Speed Racer is another one that comes to mind. Other than being kind of long for a family film, I didn't see any problems with it. I guess maybe people wanted it to be more realistic in terms of visuals. Instead, it was like a big budget, candy-colored, kids' tokusatsu adaptation of an anime. Which, truth be told, is what it was.

[Nate Grey]

I think Godzilla 1998's problem is Godzilla wasn't in it very much. I got the feeling the producers wanted to make a sort of disaster film with comedic elements and shoved Godzilla into it as the cause of the disaster. Disaster films by their very nature means having a bunch of characters in it that we care about. Which under normal circumstances is fine I guess, but save for Broderick's character I didn't give a damn about any of them (ok Reno's character was kinda funny) I wanted to see more Godzilla. I had no problem with his updated look (I remember this was a point of contention for some people at the time), and when he did show some of his abilities it was awesome, but he's still a guest star in his own movie. Ah and I didn't mind the baby Godzillas part of the movie I thought it was cute.

Godzilla 1998 is one of those movies I like in spite of itself. The cartoon series is the only sequel we'll get, and I'm cool with that since the cartoon itself was pretty cool. I liked how they turned the corpse of Godzilla from the 1998 movie into Mecha Godzilla and had it fight it's offspring.

Moving along, lets talk about a movie that was basically Ghostbusters, only replacing all supernatural elements with alien ones (well, same director and all). Yes, I'm talking about:



Like Godzilla Evolution had a cartoon show as well, but I don't remember anything about it or how connected it was to the movie, if at all. But I remember at the time most of the reviews were pretty harsh, and I thought we'd get a new franchise out of it. Alas.

[sunofdarkchild]

I like the design for the 1998 Godzilla. It's a neat update of the classic T-Rex with back-spines design to fit a more modern understanding of how the T-Rex stood and without the limitations of having to be shaped so that a human can fit inside it like the Toho suits. I also like the idea of making a Godzilla design that can move fast. The problem is this Godzilla's abilities - or lack thereof. Making Godzilla vulnerable to military weapons was a huge mistake. People watch Gidzilla movies to see Godzilla destroy stuff and be badass. They don't go to see him running away from the military all the time. And by having the military constantly miss the 300-foot-tall monster in makes them look incompetent. The army should be out of its depth, not morons with Stormtrooper aim. It's a change that effects other aspects of the film.

[Nate Grey]

The Spirit.

[Kirby101]

The Spirit.

It was worse.