Blue Marvel Appreciation 2019

[XPac]

In fairness, Adam was the only one he could develop in such a manner. The rest had their own books, IIRC

T'Challa and Carol had their own solo books, but Monica and Mac were pretty much in Ewings hands. Not that Ewing didn't do some stuff with them, but I think Adam got the most love as far as development goes.

[JudicatorPrime]

T'Challa and Carol had their own solo books, but Monica and Mac were pretty much in Ewings hands. Not that Ewing didn't do some stuff with them, but I think Adam got the most love as far as development goes.

Ewing did, indeed, do his best to flesh out Adam's character and show why he was relevant to the Marvel Universe. Not just in Ultimates, but in Mighty Avengers as well. Some of the concepts stuck, but others were total misses. And I don't know if I'll ever care to see another comic plot that involves any or all of the characters merging together. Ewing definitely ruined that device for me. (And, of course, he did it again in Avengers No Road Home with Monica and Vision.) I imagine Adam's next writer will ignore some of the character points that Ewing penned. At least I would.

[leo619]

You've been in this thread long enough to know many many people here would prefer it if Adam went around punching things for battle thread feats than if his character was actually developed.

You been in this tread long enough to know that people don't want an either or situation. People want feats and people want his character to be develop. So to pretend that fans only want one side of the area and not the other just shows how disingenuous you are to many of the fans here.

You should also know that Adam literally represents the only black superhero in the elite 100 category. Outside of him, the closest you have that was running was Gentle, so of course people are going to want him to go out just like they see thor go out, just like they see hulk go out, and just like they see hyperion to go out. To expect him to be completely different removes one of the foundational reasons for his creation (the original writer himself specifically stated he wanted a high powered black male who could tangle with the likes of Thor and others.)

[scribbleMind]

You been in this tread long enough to know that people don't want an either or situation. People want feats and people want his character to be develop.

Incorrect. I've been in this thread long enough to see pages and pages of people complain about feats with far less conversation about the direction of the characters life, personality, or future direction (outside of do more physical stuff), more than enough to have the impression I have. I assure you, it didn't come from out of nowhere. One may not like the way the character has been balanced thus far, but I would had consider this thread unbalanced in its conversation. But, if you're right and a wider spectrum of topics concerning the character has actually been expressed than I'm happy to hear it, but I haven't been in the thread long enough to see it. My interests often flip and you're more likely to see me on the DC side of the world, and it has been that way for quite a while. I suppose it hardly matters now, we're all in support of a character with an uncertain future. The want to know this character even has a future supersedes all other wants.

[leo619]

Incorrect. I've been in this thread long enough to see pages and pages of people complain about feats with far less conversation about the direction of the characters life, personality, or future direction (outside of do more physical stuff), more than enough to have the impression I have. I assure you, it didn't come from out of nowhere. One may not like the way the character has been balanced thus far, but I would had consider this thread unbalanced in its conversation. But, if you're right and a wider spectrum of topics concerning the character has actually been expressed than I'm happy to hear it, but I haven't been in the thread long enough to see it. My interests often flip and you're more likely to see me on the DC side of the world, and it has been that way for quite a while. I suppose it hardly matters now, we're all in support of a character with an uncertain future. The want to know this character even has a future supersedes all other wants.

Now that's incorrect, just because certain topics leans towards the request of seeing more physical feats does not mean that's the only thing they want, that means that's the weakness they currently see in the character, which technically is somewhat true. While under Ewing's pen, he was getting great character development. We saw the road that he wanted to take, explored his family, etc etc. So that side of the spectrum was mostly being filled and even with that, it was still talked about. But one of the foundational components of the character was missing, essentially him being represented as an elite powerhouse. So naturally, people discuss about areas of improvements over content that's progressing along nicely.

[scribbleMind]

See, that's incorrect. You're right, it's wrong to assume that's all people want just because that's the hot topic, however, it's the internet and I try not to assume more than what is given to me as that way lies madness, and what was given to me wasn't that, "The characterization is tight now, but here is where the character can approve." Simultaneously when I come into a thread like this it's to celebrate a character and not since early on in the character's life cycle have I come into this thread and felt celebration or excitement. It's just kind of been a downer, again, in my own personal experience. Thus, as I was saying, maybe I actually haven't been in this thread long enough. Also, you can ignore that first sentence. I just wanted to keep the chain going.

[JudicatorPrime]

I liked the initial idea of dealing with cosmic problems, like Galactus, head on and proactively, but they seem to have abandoned it after that one and done.

Part of the problem is that the Ultimates started getting swept up in events, as well as hampered by Ewing's plots that entailed government intrusion.

Well, the events were all crap. Let's be honest. Original Sin? CW2? Seriously, those weren't worth the team's time. Ewing should have steered the team clear of those events.

And the government interference should have been handled differently. This team was designed to deal with cosmic level concerns. An objective like that should have brought the team in direct conflict with other cosmic powers, not terrestrial governments. While the team wanted to be transparent, answering to any of the governments was a mistake. If push came to shove, Ewing should have dropped the characters on the team who were constrained by their government connections … that's primarily Carol, but if T'Challa had any conflicts, drop him too, and bring in other A-listers to replace them.

I agree that there are any number of challenges that the team could have tackled. Given that the Earth's understanding of the omniverse is limited and continues to evolve, pulling a string on the cosmic sweater could have resulted in them discovering other challenges to address. More than anything, this was an opportunity for Adam and the others to gain insight, knowledge, experience and perhaps even powers that all of the other heroes lack.

The Avengers can protect the Earth. The Guardians, the galaxy. But leave everything else to Blue Marvel and the Ultimates.

[Iconic]

What's the word on why Adam: Legend of the Blue Marvel tpb and #1 have become so expensive?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Part of the problem is that the Ultimates started getting swept up in events, as well as hampered by Ewing's plots that entailed government intrusion.

Well, the events were all crap. Let's be honest. Original Sin? CW2? Seriously, those weren't worth the team's time. Ewing should have steered the team clear of those events.

And the government interference should have been handled differently. This team was designed to deal with cosmic level concerns. An objective like that should have brought the team in direct conflict with other cosmic powers, not terrestrial governments. While the team wanted to be transparent, answering to any of the governments was a mistake. If push came to shove, Ewing should have dropped the characters on the team who were constrained by their government connections … that's primarily Carol, but if T'Challa had any conflicts, drop him too, and bring in other A-listers to replace them.

I agree that there are any number of challenges that the team could have tackled. Given that the Earth's understanding of the omniverse is limited and continues to evolve, pulling a string on the cosmic sweater could have resulted in them discovering other challenges to address. More than anything, this was an opportunity for Adam and the others to gain insight, knowledge, experience and perhaps even powers that all of the other heroes lack.

The Avengers can protect the Earth. The Guardians, the galaxy. But leave everything else to Blue Marvel and the Ultimates.

In terms of a logical narrative, the team facing government teams/inference was really underplayed.

The Ultimates were dealing with matters of reality. Anything goes wrong, and you get splash back against the entire planet. So yeah...

[JudicatorPrime]

In terms of a logical narrative, the team facing government teams/inference was really underplayed.

The Ultimates were dealing with matters of reality.

I would have muted it altogether. Other teams save the fabric of reality all of the time without governmental oversight or intervention. The X-Men and M'Kraan Crystal come to mind. As does the more recent multiverse saving actions of Reed, Molecule Man and Franklin Richards. I don't recall them requiring input, let alone oversight from a world authority. (But perhaps I missed an issue?)

Anything goes wrong, and you get splash back against the entire planet. So yeah...

That's the thing, the team's mission statement clearly established that it intended to act tactically to obviate or inoculate against repeat threats like Galactus, Thanos, etc. You know they are coming. The boogeymen that have already broken into your home, savaged your wife and kids and shot your dogs on multiple occasions previously. I think you worry less about blowback that fourth or fifth time that the monster returns to your doorstep. At that point logic dictates that you deal with him before he comes looking for you and yours. The only certainty is that if you do nothing, they most certainly will.

[J. D. Guy]

I would have muted it altogether. Other teams save the fabric of reality all of the time without governmental oversight or intervention. The X-Men and M'Kraan Crystal come to mind. As does the more recent multiverse saving actions of Reed, Molecule Man and Franklin Richards. I don't recall them requiring input, let alone oversight from a world authority. (But perhaps I missed an issue?)



That's the thing, the team's mission statement clearly established that it intended to act tactically to obviate or inoculate against repeat threats like Galactus, Thanos, etc. You know they are coming. The boogeymen that have already broken into your home, savaged your wife and kids and shot your dogs on multiple occasions previously. I think you worry less about blowback that fourth or fifth time that the monster returns to your doorstep. At that point logic dictates that you deal with him before he comes looking for you and yours. The only certainty is that if you do nothing, they most certainly will.

Not to get into or start anything, but I just wanted to say other teams, heroes, and villains getting away with their goings on without governmental notice or interference is kinda illogical (yes, even for a comic book hero verse). Not saying stories always need to involve these forces whenever it makes sense to, just that often times it does make sense to and these stories don't. So when a story does, I appreciate it. It adds to the overall fun of things and the realism. (And seems like Adam in particular having to deal with some kind of governmental monkey on his back is a motif of his origins/history.)

This is likely something that's just personal preference one way or the other, so it's unlikely you'll have much of a differing opinion or one that could be swayed. Just my two cents.

[JudicatorPrime]

Not to get into or start anything, but I just wanted to say other teams, heroes, and villains getting away with their goings on without governmental notice or interference is kinda illogical (yes, even for a comic book hero verse). Not saying stories always need to involve these forces whenever it makes sense to, just that often times it does make sense to and these stories don't. So when a story does, I appreciate it. It adds to the overall fun of things and the realism. (And seems like Adam in particular having to deal with some kind of governmental monkey on his back is a motif of his origins/history.)

This is likely something that's just personal preference one way or the other, so it's unlikely you'll have much of a differing opinion or one that could be swayed. Just my two cents.

I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your viewpoint.

I'm doing a terrible job of conveying it, but I'm speaking to a bigger issue with how Adam was handled. Successful books use tried and true formulas. I'm not opposed to governmental oversight per se. I just want the same treatment for Adam that the other heroes get most of the time. Everyone else gets to save the universe without the government, but when it's Adam turn to do it, insert government training wheels here. We get to see Hulk, Thor, Hyperion, Silver Surfer and on and on -- Adam's elite level peers -- tackle everything from Celestials, Beyonders, and uber godlike beings of every manner, but not Adam. Never Adam. I'm sensitive to that. I'm sensitive to every little thing that detracts from Adam's heroic journey.

[Chris0013]

Not to get into or start anything, but I just wanted to say other teams, heroes, and villains getting away with their goings on without governmental notice or interference is kinda illogical (yes, even for a comic book hero verse). Not saying stories always need to involve these forces whenever it makes sense to, just that often times it does make sense to and these stories don't. So when a story does, I appreciate it. It adds to the overall fun of things and the realism. (And seems like Adam in particular having to deal with some kind of governmental monkey on his back is a motif of his origins/history.)

This is likely something that's just personal preference one way or the other, so it's unlikely you'll have much of a differing opinion or one that could be swayed. Just my two cents.

This is why I think something like the Commission on Superhuman Affairs should be more prevalent throughout the entire Marvel U with their own team of superhuman agents/investigators.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I would have muted it altogether. Other teams save the fabric of reality all of the time without governmental oversight or intervention. The X-Men and M'Kraan Crystal come to mind. As does the more recent multiverse saving actions of Reed, Molecule Man and Franklin Richards. I don't recall them requiring input, let alone oversight from a world authority. (But perhaps I missed an issue?)

The difference is that in those examples, the teams stumbled or were pulled into those situations before they knew what was what.

The Ultimates, in contrast, sought out the situations and attempted to apply their own solutions

That's the thing, the team's mission statement clearly established that it intended to act tactically to obviate or inoculate against repeat threats like Galactus, Thanos, etc. You know they are coming. The boogeymen that have already broken into your home, savaged your wife and kids and shot your dogs on multiple occasions previously. I think you worry less about blowback that fourth or fifth time that the monster returns to your doorstep. At that point logic dictates that you deal with him before he comes looking for you and yours. The only certainty is that if you do nothing, they most certainly will.

Spare me the X-Force rational

The problem is that everyone is gonna disagree on the best solution. And provoke a situation too much, and you might end up with a pissed off world eater.

[Agent Z]

So I had a little thought regarding the 90s Spider-Man Fox cartoon.

In the fifth season, we have a five parter episode titled the "The Six Forgotten Warriors". The five-parter saw Spider-Man team up with Captain America and five other superheroes who gained their powers in an attempt to duplicate the experiment that empowered Captain America. One of those heroes was the Black Marvel. Now at first it is assumed the Black Marvel is Dan Lyons, his secret identity in the comics. However, we later learn that the true Black Marvel is actually Omar Mosley an African American teacher who was friends with Robbie Robertson. Dan wanted to undergo the experiment to become Black Marvel but was forbidden from doing so by his father so Omar went in his place. While Omar was the one under the mask, Dan let people think he was the Black Marvel to shield his friend from racial backlash over being a black superhero.

It's a stretch but I do wonder if maybe this episode might have been an influence in the way Grevioux wrote Adam's origin. Their names are similar (Blue Marvel, Black Marvel) and they both have stories of hiding their true identities from racial backlash.