The Inhuman Condition: From Terrigenesis to the Moon - Inhuman Appreciation 2019

[Frontier]

The versions in Agents of SHIELD absolutely were.

And kind of in the cartoons. Maybe it wasn't as obvious, but it felt like they were leaning in that direction.

[XPac]

I'm not sure what you're referring to in this regard. The X-Men films were made by Fox and Marvel had nothing to do with them.



The versions in Agents of SHIELD absolutely were.

That will potentially make things weird when mutants debut in the MCU, because to some degree it's almost deja vu from the Inhuman stuff. Granted the Inhuman stuff occured on the TV show rather than in the movies, so to some degree you can pretend it didn't happen but still... it's suppposed to be the same world.

[Force de Phenix]

The X-Men films were made by Fox and Marvel had nothing to do with them.

You said they were substitutes. Disney wasn't going to make a movie about the same exact thing as Fox three months apart from each other.

The versions in Agents of SHIELD absolutely were.

The inhumans and mutants have pretty much been always the same thing, but one group lives in inhuman Genosha, Utopia, Astroid M = Attilan, and has a convoluted Kree warrior backstory and culture. Now with Hickman, the mutants will probably get a similar treatment.

Captain America Civil War made the Avengers into mutant stand-ins, and did a good job at it. They didn't need mutants to make a film about superhumans being caged and controlled by the government.

[Holt]

You said they were substitutes.

I did. Not following how any of this disputes that.

Disney wasn't going to make a movie about the same exact thing as Fox three months apart from each other.

...And they didn't, because Feige dropped it.

The inhumans and mutants have pretty much been always the same thing

And the versions seen in the MCU amped up the comparisons significantly. That's as clear as day at this point, and is an observation countless others made when it was happening.

[Force de Phenix]

I did. Not following how any of this disputes that.



...And they didn't, because Feige dropped it.



And the versions seen in the MCU amped up the comparisons significantly. That's as clear as day at this point, and is an observation countless others made when it was happening.

It's great that people saw how similar they are since they've had a history of that in the comics. They should, and they did. I don't think Kirby intended it to be just a coincidence.

They aren't substitutes if their telling their story and they are similar. People are more attracted to the X-Men characters, their stories, and their dynamic as a team more than anything else. Sadly. And you can't substitute that, and I doubt their intention was to replace Wolverine and Magneto.

The Eternals are a alien created superhuman species who live in a hidden city. Did Jack Kirby make them as inhuman replacements, or did he make different characters with very similar concepts?

[Mike_Murdock]

The inhumans and mutants have pretty much been always the same thing, but one group lives in inhuman Genosha, Utopia, Astroid M = Attilan, and has a convoluted Kree warrior backstory and culture. Now with Hickman, the mutants will probably get a similar treatment.

I think it ended up reaching the same point from different directions. The mutant homeland concept always was closer to something like the founding of Israel. It was a diverse group of people with no shared culture but a shared oppression joining together to found a different place. Attilan was an always existing place with its own culture that others joined. It's much closer to finding out that you're Irish and deciding to visit Ireland. It's learning about your heritage and ancestry rather than creating a brand new one. Thinking about it, even the Israel analogy isn't perfect for that reason because there was a shared culture among the Jewish diaspora that ties back to Ancient Judea. But, for the NuHumans, they definitely ended up reaching a very similar point.

That being said, there was one thing that the NuHumans had that I thought was much closer to a traditional origin story than a mutant origin story. How people get their mutation has varied to a degree and the idea that traumatic events can help trigger it blurs this a lot, but the Terrigen Cloud kind of mirrors the freak accident that most superhero stories have. In a traditional narrative, mutants become mutants because they hit puberty. It's just the simple act of growing up. The cloud hit old and young alike without warning. It's basically getting bit by a radioactive spider or blinded by a radioactive canister. It was an external force as much as an internal one that's the cause. You get the sense that even mutants who had a non-traditional trigger for their powers very likely could have gotten their powers eventually.

As for Hickman. I think the future Krakoa in Powers of X feels very Attilan but it's also entirely too early to tell what the hell is going on there

[mung]

Ms. Marvel's on the big new Marvel Universe group shot poster.

I'm really not a fan how small theses have gotten. They use to be huge and include characters even more obscure than the inhumans. Not it's congested and heavily favoring the MCU and tv products.

[Holt]

They aren't substitutes if their telling their story and they are similar.

In the context of one group being unavailable to use and the other group being changed to be even more like them, yes, they were. That's not even really arguable at this point. It's an observation a bunch of people made even while the Inhumanity plot on Agents of SHIELD was going down.



And anyway, lest this thread gets derailed again with another multi-page argument between the two of us, I'll just say that's that.

[Force de Phenix]

In the context of one group being unavailable to use and the other group being changed to be even more like them, yes, they were. That's not even really arguable at this point. It's an observation a bunch of people made even while the Inhumanity plot on Agents of SHIELD was going down.



And anyway, lest this thread gets derailed again with another multi-page argument between the two of us, I'll just say that's that.

They told an inhuman story. They weren't substitutes. Like I said, the X-Men have a lot in common, especially being discriminated against, which was a theme in the third season of AOS.

I don't get what the problem is with saying they are the same in many ways.

[Holt]

And if you honestly believe that, more power to you. But like I said, it's an observation many have already made. *Shrugs*

[Force de Phenix]

And if you honestly believe that, more power to you. But like I said, it's an observation many have already made. *Shrugs*

Many made the observation because they've always been written with similar themes and the connection between the two has always been there.

[Holt]

Many made the observation because they've always been written with similar themes and the connection between the two has always been there.

No, they made that observation because of what was presented onscreen in the context of them not being able to use Mutants in the MCU, and the Inhumans having their similarities amped up to make them even closer.

Again, if you don't think the Inhumans were presented in a manner that made them seem closer to mutants in the MCU, then fine, but that's something that did not go unnoticed or uncommented on by others.

[Thor-Ul]

Curious. I always thought about the stories of the Inhumans to be about cultural clash. They were always so detached from the other heroes, and curious about human culture.

[Force de Phenix]

No, they made that observation because of what was presented onscreen in the context of them not being able to use Mutants in the MCU, and the Inhumans having their similarities amped up to make them even closer.

Again, if you don't think the Inhumans were presented in a manner that made them seem closer to mutants in the MCU, then fine, but that's something that did not go unnoticed or uncommented on by others.

They are similar to mutants, and the way they were presented felt natural. They didn't skip the Kree, Terrigenisis, or hidden city part of the inhumans, so I don't see where the issue with them being viewed as mutants are. People are familiar with mutants, they weren't familiar with inhumans, so when they saw it, it was obviously going to be the first thing they thought of.

Curious. I always thought about the stories of the Inhumans to be about cultural clash. They were always so detached from the other heroes, and curious about human culture.

They have a lot of culture clash, but if you think about it, the X-Men have been pretty separate from other heroes as well. I think when they became successful in the 90's, they steered away from mixing with any Marvel properties like the Avengers even though they could have. They even have a separate forum on this website. It has to be a species issue if it affects mutants, inhumans, eternals, and Atlanteans.

[Holt]

People are familiar with mutants, they weren't familiar with inhumans, so when they saw it, it was obviously going to be the first thing they thought of.

Right. Especially when Marvel intentionally invited that comparison by strengthening those similarities. That's the point of substitution.