Flip the genders and... oh, that is not right

[Killerbee911]

Why pretend things are equal.They are different rules for men and women. My Wife can load up punch me has hard she in can in public in stomach and nobody will help me,I can load up punch my wife as hard as I can in public and people will run over to help and I will end up in jail. Women are seen as weaker, And the train reaction is to protect them. Even if Captain Marvel is invincible and her boyfriend plays slap her the trained mentality is a woman is being assaulted and most people will see it as that. A beautiful woman can walk up and kiss a guy on cheek with no issue, A handsome man doing the same thing is assault. The rules for men and women aren't same.

[Osiris-Rex]

Why pretend things are equal.They are different rules for men and women. My Wife can load up punch me has hard she in can in public in stomach and nobody will help me,I can load up punch my wife as hard as I can in public and people will run over to help and I will end up in jail. Women are seen as weaker, And the train reaction is to protect them. Even if Captain Marvel is invincible and her boyfriend plays slap her the trained mentality is a woman is being assaulted and most people will see it as that. A beautiful woman can walk up and kiss a guy on cheek with no issue, A handsome man doing the same thing is assault. The rules for men and women aren't same.

The amusing thing is how angry people got when Supergirl beat Superman in a fist fight. Not because a man was hitting a woman. Beating the crap out of her. But because the woman won.
Not a single person felt sorry for the woman and all the abuse she endured by a man attacking her and her trying to defend herself against the man's assault on her.

[Midvillian1322]

Ok, let's play a bit of hypotheticals. If Captain Marvel has a human boyfriend and said boyfriend slaps CM, do you think nobody would say anything? Do you really think that would be played for laughs? I don't think so.

When I said 'flip the genders', I meant just meant reverse the genders, not the roles. If Thor was a woman and Jane was a man, no way that scene would fly, even if everyone knows Man!Jane would not be able to hurt Woman!Thor one bit.

By the way, I don't think the bolded is true every time, or even most times. I think most people would either say, "the man must've done something to deserve it" or worse "whohoo! girl power!"

Not true everytime I agree. But I think most the time usually when someone its picking on someone that much smaller then them people are gonna intervene. Now if that tiny dude was hitting that big girl someone gonna hurt that guy.

What about TFA when Cap comes out the Pod and Peggy's oogles him and then feels up his stomach. Today if they had a guy do that to a women he would be a pervert.

[Jim Kelly]

Somehow when Mr. Incredible puts his super-hero career ahead of his family in the first INCREDIBLES, he's a bad father and husband, but when Elasti-Girl does the same thing in INCREDIBLES 2, that's okay and her family has to be supportive and allow her to do that. Also they apparently learned nothing from the first movie.

I think it's much more clever to flip one gender and leave everything else the same. So take PRETTY WOMAN for example and replace Julia Roberts with Eric Roberts but everyone else in the movie is the same in the same exact story.

[Totoro Man]

Somehow when Mr. Incredible puts his super-hero career ahead of his family in the first INCREDIBLES, he's a bad father and husband, but when Elasti-Girl does the same thing in INCREDIBLES 2, that's okay and her family has to be supportive and allow her to do that. Also they apparently learned nothing from the first movie.

I think it's much more clever to flip one gender and leave everything else the same. So take PRETTY WOMAN for example and replace Julia Roberts with Eric Roberts but everyone else in the movie is the same in the same exact story.

sort of... it's not a directly applied double-standard... the big difference is that Bob did his superhero work in secret from both his family and the general public. Helen did it with the support of her husband and had other people involved in the process as well. not only does she NOT keep it a secret--Bob actively encourages her to do superhero work.

she even said, repeatedly, throughout the film.... that if they needed her to drop everything and come back to help that they only need call her. Mr. Incredible wanted to prove to himself, to his wife, and to his kids, that he was "man enough" for the job. in both cases... it was Bob Parr's pride that made him not call her back OR reveal to her that he had been fired and was doing illegal undercover hero work. but Mr Incredible is still shown as being a decent, hard working man who cares for his family. I thought both films were thoroughly fair and equitable to both Mr Incredible and Elastigirl. they both have flaws and strengths - and the help bring out the best in each other.

ironically, in keeping with your complaint, a lot of critics were angry when Helen actually ASKED her family if they were okay with her chasing after the villain at the end of the movie. she didn't take off after the villain until after her family assured her that they were safe and that they wanted her to go. they felt this was "regressive politics" when it simply demonstrates that Helen wasn't going to go running off and leave her family without their blessing. honestly, I thought it worked out just fine at a narrative and thematic level. maybe the critics who complained about that scene didn't learn anything from either film... but it seems to me that the Incredibles, as a family, did actually learn from their prior cinematic adventure.

[SpiderClops]

Not true everytime I agree. But I think most the time usually when someone its picking on someone that much smaller then them people are gonna intervene. Now if that tiny dude was hitting that big girl someone gonna hurt that guy.

What about TFA when Cap comes out the Pod and Peggy's oogles him and then feels up his stomach. Today if they had a guy do that to a women he would be a pervert.

I was going to mention that, too. Worse is the fact that it wasn't in the script. Hayley Atwell did that on her own accord.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...ess-improvised

She then went on to relay the story of when she saw Evans with his “top off” for the first time and “impulsively just grabbed his boob.” The Internet thanks her for acting on that completely natural impulse.

[ed2962]

Somehow when Mr. Incredible puts his super-hero career ahead of his family in the first INCREDIBLES, he's a bad father and husband, but when Elasti-Girl does the same thing in INCREDIBLES 2, that's okay and her family has to be supportive and allow her to do that. Also they apparently learned nothing from the first movie.

I think it's much more clever to flip one gender and leave everything else the same. So take PRETTY WOMAN for example and replace Julia Roberts with Eric Roberts but everyone else in the movie is the same in the same exact story.

Was this really a wide spread criticism of the film?

[SpiderClops]

Was this really a wide spread criticism of the film?

Not the criticism of the movie, the criticism of Mr. Incredible by everyone within the universe. He's portrayed as wrong for doing that.

By the way, Bob does the superheroing in secret and by lying to his family and mostly to satisfy his ego, Helen does it in the open and is willing to quit if her family really needs her. So it's not really double standards.

[Powerboy]

Why pretend things are equal.They are different rules for men and women. My Wife can load up punch me has hard she in can in public in stomach and nobody will help me,I can load up punch my wife as hard as I can in public and people will run over to help and I will end up in jail. Women are seen as weaker, And the train reaction is to protect them. Even if Captain Marvel is invincible and her boyfriend plays slap her the trained mentality is a woman is being assaulted and most people will see it as that. A beautiful woman can walk up and kiss a guy on cheek with no issue, A handsome man doing the same thing is assault. The rules for men and women aren't same.

This is true and I think some of the responses to this post support that.

The example of Peggy Carter feeling up Cap's stomach muscles for example which would immediately get people screaming sexual harassment if he did that to her. And it would be. But it should be thought of the same when she did it.

Yes, it is about the core visceral reaction that women are weaker and need to be defended. An unusual or fantasy situation where the woman is more powerful or even in invincibly more powerful doesn't change the core reaction.

I've been in situations where a female acquaintance walked up and rubbed my back and patted it *and then I put my hand on her back* or walked up and hugged me or put her arm around my shoulders as we stood side to side. I was fine with it but it couldn't help cross my mind that a lot of people would look at it questionably if I did it first.

I've been in situations where a female friend of mine and I were joking around and I get a good remark in and she punches me in the shoulder. Again, just joking around and I have no desire to punch her in the shoulder or just tap at best because I have that weaker sex mentality too some of which is valid and some of which is not. But if I did do that, even so lightly that no one could possibly think it hurt her, there would still be that visceral reaction that it wasn't an acceptable thing to do and I'd somewhat have that reaction myself.

Yes, the reality is that the standards and gut reactions to these things do not lead to the same rules.

[TheCape]

This is true and I think some of the responses to this post support that.

The example of Peggy Carter feeling up Cap's stomach muscles for example which would immediately get people screaming sexual harassment if he did that to her. And it would be. But it should be thought of the same when she did it.

Yes, it is about the core visceral reaction that women are weaker and need to be defended. An unusual or fantasy situation where the woman is more powerful or even in invincibly more powerful doesn't change the core reaction.

I've been in situations where a female acquaintance walked up and rubbed my back and patted it *and then I put my hand on her back* or walked up and hugged me or put her arm around my shoulders as we stood side to side. I was fine with it but it couldn't help cross my mind that a lot of people would look at it questionably if I did it first.

I've been in situations where a female friend of mine and I were joking around and I get a good remark in and she punches me in the shoulder. Again, just joking around and I have no desire to punch her in the shoulder or just tap at best because I have that weaker sex mentality too some of which is valid and some of which is not. But if I did do that, even so lightly that no one could possibly think it hurt her, there would still be that visceral reaction that it wasn't an acceptable thing to do and I'd somewhat have that reaction myself.

Yes, the reality is that the standards and gut reactions to these things do not lead to the same rules.

We are visual beings, women are usually smaller and weaker than us, so they are no threat for us, right?!, and there has been a lot of negative stereotypes from both sexes that many people subconsciously just sort of accept, i had been guilty of that too much to my shame. Is an inequality that sadly we haven't been able to overcome.

[Powerboy]

The amusing thing is how angry people got when Supergirl beat Superman in a fist fight. Not because a man was hitting a woman. Beating the crap out of her. But because the woman won.
Not a single person felt sorry for the woman and all the abuse she endured by a man attacking her and her trying to defend herself against the man's assault on her.

On that one, I think Superman is an ideal more than just a character. In comic books, he's sort of the ultimate male ideal while Wonder Woman is the ultimate female ideal. Which is why people get so angry arguing which of them should win in a fight.

I think the idea of Supergirl (who isn't even the ultimate female comic book character) beating Superman really sets off a lot of core evolutionary or social attitudes. Maybe sexism but basically people get so preoccupied that she actually beat him that the very idea of a man hitting a woman takes a back seat.

I've been in martial arts. There are women who could beat me, one of my instructors, for example. But I'm not the symbol and ideal of the ultimate male. I think Superman is and the idea of a woman beating him sets off that core reaction. Granted, anybody beating him sets off that reaction to a degree.

There were some things that happened in that fight that I winced when he punched her or slammed her around. But, when it comes to fantasy, we're long since in the era of Xena, La Femme Nikita, the Black Widow, and so on. We're in a time when it is often presented as women and men being pretty much equal in strength and that women can readily go toe to toe with a man of similar fighting skills. So Supergirl taking those punches and coming back with her own punches that are just as hard or harder somewhat mitigates the visceral reaction that people would have in real life to a man hitting a woman.

[Powerboy]

We are visual beings, women are usually smaller and weaker than us, so they are no threat for us, right?!, and there has been a lot of negative stereotypes from both sexes that many people subconsciously just sort of accept, i had been guilty of that too much to my shame. Is an inequality that sadly we haven't been able to overcome.

I wouldn't go as far as to say a woman or anyone being smaller or not as strong means they are no threat. But that is a general reaction which I often have myself.

[Malvolio]

I notice no mention of Wonder Woman here. I think if Steve Trevor did what Jane Foster did, Diana would just look at him with a look that says, "Seriously?"

[TheCape]

I wouldn't go as far as to say a woman or anyone being smaller or not as strong means they are no threat. But that is a general reaction which I often have myself.

Don't get me wrong, i agreed with you, but in my opinion, that is the reason of why many had that gut reaction when you see this double standard in real life. Just because someone is smaller and weaker, doesn't mean that he or she can't hurt you, but we don't look beyond the surface many times.

[Osiris-Rex]

Don't get me wrong, i agreed with you, but in my opinion, that is the reason of why many had that gut reaction when you see this double standard in real life. Just because someone is smaller and weaker, doesn't mean that he or she can't hurt you, but we don't look beyond the surface many times.

The whole basis of martial arts is someone smaller but more skilled can take on a larger opponent. I am a half a foot taller and out weigh Ronda Rousey by 60 pounds but she would destroy me in a fight.