Flip the genders and... oh, that is not right

[Cyke]

Somehow when Mr. Incredible puts his super-hero career ahead of his family in the first INCREDIBLES, he's a bad father and husband, but when Elasti-Girl does the same thing in INCREDIBLES 2, that's okay and her family has to be supportive and allow her to do that.

Um, that's exactly what got her and her family into trouble in the first place. Mr. Incredible was portrayed as a sympathetic struggling father because he was essentially reduced to a single parent. So no, I wouldn't say that was okay in comparison.

Mr. Incredible's big fault (besides falling into the same trap the first time) was that he wasn't honest and transparent with Elasti-Girl and the family (that she thought he was cheating on him is a big marriage red flag, whether it's true or not). This time around, she was upfront about it, but too preoccupied to delve further into it -- her big fault was that she was prioritizing work over family. It's a small but important difference; in the first movie, Elasti-Girl both tells Mr. Incredible that 1. it would've been okay to tell them and 2. She missed the action, too. I dislike that Incredibles 2 was a rehash, but she was at least making different decisions earlier on than Bob did in the first movie. Flip their roles in their movies and it would largely remain the same (aside from perhaps the cheating) because the problems aren't gender based, they're based on the choices they make; which is what gender equality is supposed to focus on -- how individual choices and how society and structures of power affect or limit those choices on people, marginalized or not, empowered or not.

[Powerboy]

The whole basis of martial arts is someone smaller but more skilled can take on a larger opponent. I am a half a foot taller and out weigh Ronda Rousey by 60 pounds but she would destroy me in a fight.

True but Ronda Rousey is overwhelmingly more skilled than you or me. You've got to be overwhelmingly more skilled to compensate for that much of a weight advantage assuming it's mostly muscle. There's a reason most fighting sports divide fighters into weight classes.

[Osiris-Rex]

True but Ronda Rousey is overwhelmingly more skilled than you or me. You've got to be overwhelmingly more skilled to compensate for that much of a weight advantage assuming it's mostly muscle. There's a reason most fighting sports divide fighters into weight classes.

But that was sort of my point. The female characters are overwhelmingly skilled. Like in the Gotham TV show where Selina Kyle takes on the Mutant Leader. In real life Camren Bicondova is 5'2 and 115 lbs.
While Sid O'Connell looks to be well over 6 foot and well over 200 lbs.

[Papa Moai]

40 Days and 40 Nights is a somewhat notorious example of this.

[Soubhagya]

On that one, I think Superman is an ideal more than just a character. In comic books, he's sort of the ultimate male ideal while Wonder Woman is the ultimate female ideal. Which is why people get so angry arguing which of them should win in a fight.

I think the idea of Supergirl (who isn't even the ultimate female comic book character) beating Superman really sets off a lot of core evolutionary or social attitudes. Maybe sexism but basically people get so preoccupied that she actually beat him that the very idea of a man hitting a woman takes a back seat.

I've been in martial arts. There are women who could beat me, one of my instructors, for example. But I'm not the symbol and ideal of the ultimate male. I think Superman is and the idea of a woman beating him sets off that core reaction. Granted, anybody beating him sets off that reaction to a degree.

There were some things that happened in that fight that I winced when he punched her or slammed her around. But, when it comes to fantasy, we're long since in the era of Xena, La Femme Nikita, the Black Widow, and so on. We're in a time when it is often presented as women and men being pretty much equal in strength and that women can readily go toe to toe with a man of similar fighting skills. So Supergirl taking those punches and coming back with her own punches that are just as hard or harder somewhat mitigates the visceral reaction that people would have in real life to a man hitting a woman.

Superman is someone who is supposedly unbeatable. He set the standard for superheroes as beings who are beyond the usual heroes. He is the man. That's why stories like Dark Knight Returns work. Batman was not supposed to win against Superman. That's ridiculous. Impossible. And he does that. Once you make him lesser, you sort of make him Super-man instead of Superman. Both aren't the same.

[babybats]

The reason for this stuff is that a man hitting a woman evokes themes of domestic abuse. Decades ago, this sort of comedy was acceptable, but then people started to realize that domestic abuse was a serious issue so now hitting women isn't played for laughs. On the flip side, a woman hitting/doing something violent to a man is a common gag because "lol she can't really hurt him she's a girl" or "lol guys deserve to get put down by women" or some nonsense. I've always hated that. Women hurting men in a relationship is also domestic abuse and shouldn't be played for laughs.

That said, though, I don't think we should go the other route and have men in a relationship hitting women for a joke (even if the woman is massively bigger or stronger). If you're in a relationship, you shouldn't be trying to physically hurt each other unless you're a horrible person or crazy. Maybe you could argue that Jane slapped Thor because she knew it wouldn't hurt him, and that Peggy shot Steve because she knew his shield would reflect the bullets but...it's a bizarrely irrational thing to do for two characters who are otherwise very rational.

And on the subject of double standards, here's how I see it. I'm a 5'0" woman who's studied martial arts for several years. If I hit someone playfully, I only do it if I know they're cool with it and encourage them to hit me back, man or woman. But if I'm in a fight with a man, 90% of the time I'm at a physical disadvantage. And if I'm walking home alone at night, I'm very aware of that. And we do live in a cultural situation that results in women getting sexually assaulted more often than men, and myself and most of my female friends all have experience with that. So I'm not saying that the double standard is right, but there is a reason for it.

[SpiderClops]

Of all The Last Jedi "debates", this never comes up. Can you imagine Han Solo slapping Rey like that for being reckless?

[Osiris-Rex]

Of all The Last Jedi "debates", this never comes up. Can you imagine Han Solo slapping Rey like that for being reckless?

I have never noticed Jethro Gibbs slapping any of the female NCIS agents on the back of the head either. Just the men. The women he kisses on the cheek.

[Starter Set]

Are you really hoping for a world in which everyone would be treated the exact same?

[Osiris-Rex]

Are you really hoping for a world in which everyone would be treated the exact same?

Wasn't that sort of the whole point of the civil rights and womens rights and gay rights movements? Everyone gets treated equally.

[MarkRodriguez09]

Wasn't that sort of the whole point of the civil rights and womens rights and gay rights movements? Everyone gets treated equally.

It's advertised as, but it slowly became 'give women all the advantages men have, but without losing all the advantages they already have'. I don't think we'll ever be equal. No matter what it'll always be seen as wrong to bop a woman, even if in self defense and she comes at you with a knife, and women will always either walk or serve less time for the exact crime a man commited.

It's just the way the world works.

[Username taken]

The average woman hitting an average man isn’t the same the other way round. Men are built bigger and stronger than women on average so, it really isn’t a double standard as much as it is a biological reality. Same with adults and kids. There are exceptions to this but they are few and far between.

Real life fighting is separated by gender and weight for a reason. Even trans fighters have to meet certain biological requirements because our genetic differences and advantages or disadvantages in combat can’t be disregarded.

[ed2962]

If a 250 pound athlete beat up a 110 pound bookworm, most people would consider it an unfair even if they were both men. If they were both women I'm sure the same would apply.

[Star_Jammer]

If a 250 pound athlete beat up a 110 pound bookworm, most people would consider it an unfair even if they were both men. If they were both women I'm sure the same would apply.

The reason that a 250lb athlete beating up a 110lb bookworm is wrong...is because anyone beating up anyone is wrong.

I mean, unless it's 100% consensual. Then have at each other.

[ed2962]

The reason that a 250lb athlete beating up a 110lb bookworm is wrong...is because anyone beating up anyone is wrong.

I mean, unless it's 100% consensual. Then have at each other.

Sure. But it seems like some people seem to be suggesting that it's unfair that society frowns on men who use their size advantage against women?