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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    Death/Funeral/Reign is better, IMO. It's been quite awhile since I've read either, but I'm not sure Knightfall could even happen now. I may be off base here working w/ a spotty memory, but I recall Nightwing's participation in the event was rather small -- w/ Bruce out of commission, the Bat-family was basically reduced to Tim Drake, who was still pretty new at the time. Nowadays, the Bat-family is so large they'd be able to shut JVP down rather quickly.
    Knightfall is what strengthened the Bat family and that's why in the future stories , especially in the 90s and 2000s, the Bat-family were a cohesive unit. Throughout Knightfall Bruce believes that he has to take down Bane alone--he doesn't even want Tim helping him. However afterwards most of the bigger stories feature Batman seeking assistance and all the characters working as a team. That's honestly why characters like Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Huntress, Oracle etc are so popular. Knightfall made the Bat-family necessary.

  2. #32
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I have a question about Knightfall. Why did JPV take over as Batman? Why didnt Nightwing step up and take over? Did they ever explain that in the comics?
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    I have a question about Knightfall. Why did JPV take over as Batman? Why didnt Nightwing step up and take over? Did they ever explain that in the comics?
    Yep a few times during and after the storyline. Bruce didn't want Dick to have to take on the responsibilities of Batman when he was in the process of discovering himself as Nightwing. Dick was already pretty alienated from the family even though he was in touch with them

    Bruce had a trusted relationship with JPV, he was basically the only person who could wear the cowl and take down Bane, and he also saw it as a shot for Jean Paul to redeem himself
    Last edited by Elmo; 01-18-2019 at 03:20 PM.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick answer
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  5. #35
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I love both. It probably would've sucked to read them as they were coming out but binging them in trade form. These were massive shake-ups that felt like they were building instead of destroying. I love stories where the hero overcomes odds that they have never faced before at such a large scale.
    Quite the opposite, actually! Today's comics are written to be read better in trade, and that decompression is what sucks (imho). Reading these events at the time gave people a reason to be at their LCS every week to read the next chapter! And even though they were both drawn out over real time, they didn't read as decompressed and every issue was more dense than most stuff on the shelf today.

    Having fewer responsibilities helped too. When my daily routine consisted of homework-dinner-comics every night, I had plenty of time to re-read each issue several times in anticipation of the next!
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  6. #36
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    never mind on which story is better I just always break out laughing when I am reminded of shondras brother after hearing her relive her life's story asking the audience: "isn't she a saint?" for some reason it always tickled my funny bone.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Steroid's Avatar
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    Read both as they were coming out and enjoyed both. I give the nod to Death of Superman as it led into Reign and gave us the gift of Steel and Superboy.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    Death/Funeral/Reign is better, IMO. It's been quite awhile since I've read either, but I'm not sure Knightfall could even happen now. I may be off base here working w/ a spotty memory, but I recall Nightwing's participation in the event was rather small -- w/ Bruce out of commission, the Bat-family was basically reduced to Tim Drake, who was still pretty new at the time. Nowadays, the Bat-family is so large they'd be able to shut JVP down rather quickly.
    I think that was another aspect that the Batman Office wanted to explore at the time with Knightfall. Bruce pretty much refused to rope in others to help him and went it alone. That played a significant part in how he was worn down in the first place as the physical and mental strain was overwhelming. That's why, as soon as Bruce returns to the cowl, he began branching out by mending ties with Dick, placing more faith in Tim as his partner, bring JPV in as Azreal to act as his agent, Catwoman and, down the line, Babs and the Birds Of Prey.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Yep a few times during and after the storyline. Bruce didn't want Dick to have to take on the responsibilities of Batman when he was in the process of discovering himself as Nightwing. Dick was already pretty alienated from the family even though he was in touch with them

    Bruce had a trusted relationship with JPV, he was basically the only person who could wear the cowl and take down Bane, and he also saw it as a shot for Jean Paul to redeem himself
    Bruce had numerous reasons for not allowing Dick to take over for him 1) he respected Dick discovering himself as Nightwing and that he wanted to be his own man by setting up his own life/identity separate from him. 2) Bruce and Dick weren't on the best of terms at the time as Dick was still hurt by Bruce forbidding him to continue as Robin before bringing in Jason Todd (the real truth is Dick getting shot by the Joker scared Bruce). 3) Bruce didn't want Dick to try and take down Bane (which he would have tried as its his character) and 4) Bruce was just plain stubborn to go to Dick and ask him.

  10. #40
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    Eh they're both popular, spawned a bunch of characters that would go on to have their own books, get mainstream adaptations and they clearly have a large legacy but I think the Knightfall saga beats out the DOS saga on the fact that the momentum created by the former kept on going and arguably never ended. Superman writers have never been able to recreate that success and clearly crave for it. With Bats its been smooth sailing, they continued with Legacy/NML in the nineties, Hush/Red Hood in the early 2000's, Morrison in the late 2000's and Snyder and probably even King since then.
    Similar attempts from Superman writers have fizzled out, first Our Worlds at War, then the New Krypton saga, then New 52 and even Rebirth. Every time Superman starts generating momentum his writers/editors pull the plug.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    I only ask because I just recently read the entire Death/Return of Superman run and I really loved it. I held off on it for years because I heard it was crap but once I read it I loved it. People say a movie or a book is like a roller coaster a lot of the time but for this story I really think it is. The way it starts off crazy then slows down then get really crazy then slows down. Some people may not like that but I had an absolute blast reading it.

  12. #42
    Mighty Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    And I really loved Hunter Prey but I wish Darkseid and Doomsday fought to a standstill instead of Doomsday getting the victory. That's only because I'm a Darkseid fanboy though

  13. #43
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkseid Is View Post
    And I really loved Hunter Prey but I wish Darkseid and Doomsday fought to a standstill instead of Doomsday getting the victory. That's only because I'm a Darkseid fanboy though
    Hunter Prey was bloody awesome!
    Doomsday Wars...… not so much.
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  14. #44
    Mighty Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Hunter Prey was bloody awesome!
    Doomsday Wars...… not so much.
    I read the Superman Doomsday collection and I didn't mind Doomsday Wars. I mean it wasn't great but it wasn't the worst thing in the world.

    I just loved the Superman Doomsday book because it really showed the evolution of a badass overpowered villain. He starts off beating the Justice League with one hand tied behind his back and killing Superman. Then he returns only to be sent to the end of time. Then we see flashbacks of him beating up Darkseid and whooping the Green Lantern Corps ass. Then Imperiex kills him with one hit... then Superman just punches him really hard and he's defeated. Over time all the characters that were a big deal just become rubbish haha

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    I didn't love Hunter Prey, but it did give Doomsday a really good origin.

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