View Poll Results: What did you think of Wonder Woman #62?

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  • ★★★★

    9 36.00%
  • ★★★

    9 36.00%
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Luckily, the goddess Harmonia—daughter of Ares and Aphrodite—and the nymph Harmonia—mother of the Amazons with Ares—appears to be different beings.

    Not that it'd stop the Olympian gods. Zeus fathered Persephone on his sister Demeter, and then fathered Zagreus on Persephone. Zeus is thus father, grandfather, and great-uncle to Zagreus. And he conspired with Hades on Persephone's abduction. How anyone wants to have that guy as Diana's father leaves me boggled.
    DC doesn't care, that's why. Rapist amazons. Angry Wonder Xena portrayal in many books, Baby of Zeus, downgrade in power, twin brother with more powers than her, a never ending list of ugly things DC has done to the character.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Luckily, the goddess Harmonia—daughter of Ares and Aphrodite—and the nymph Harmonia—mother of the Amazons with Ares—appears to be different beings.

    Not that it'd stop the Olympian gods. Zeus fathered Persephone on his sister Demeter, and then fathered Zagreus on Persephone. Zeus is thus father, grandfather, and great-uncle to Zagreus. And he conspired with Hades on Persephone's abduction. How anyone wants to have that guy as Diana's father leaves me boggled.
    I must mention that the myths of the Greek gods have different sources (since Polis were not unified) and new myths appeared over time. Therefore, there are many contradictions.

    For example: This myth of Zeus having a son with Persephone is a version, but there is another version where Hades is the father.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I must mention that the myths of the Greek gods have different sources (since Polis were not unified) and new myths appeared over time. Therefore, there are many contradictions.

    For example: This myth of Zeus having a son with Persephone is a version, but there is another version where Hades is the father.
    Correct. But Zeus being the father seems to be the more common version. And Hades is of course Persephone's uncle…

  4. #34
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    Agree with others that this conclusion felt rushed. Overall, the issue was above average for me (3 stars), but the arc was 2 stars.

    The art was great and some of the action scenes were beautifully rendered.

    I have a few nitpicky things:

    1) After lassoing Ares and taking him down, she decides to turn her back on him to preach to the Prime Minister. And it was the Prime Minister who had to warn her that Ares was going to attack her. Um...total rookie mistake!

    2) I thought Diana's exclamation of "M..my weapons!" was just bizarre.

    3) That Diana was stunned to be asked to leave. Um...she did just invade a foreign country (exigent circumstances not withstanding). She just blamed Ares for starting a war and disregarding how it affects the country and citizens. She launched herself into this fight with Ares, causing addition damage and destruction. Why is she surprised to be considered as part of the whole fiasco?

    4) The power and ability of the lasso is made moot. In Perez's run, Ares saw the folly of his ways after being confronted with the truth of his mad plan. Rucka had Ares' claim to have evolved from war to conflict and not being Diana's direct enemy was verified by the lasso during his run. GWW wrote the lasso as just a rope/whip weapon. Despite Diana's proclamation about knowing how to use the lasso, she didn't do anything compelling with it.


    I'm cautiously optimistic about GWW's run, but so far it's been a tepid start for me.

    jBn

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackBNimble View Post
    Agree with others that this conclusion felt rushed. Overall, the issue was above average for me (3 stars), but the arc was 2 stars.

    The art was great and some of the action scenes were beautifully rendered.

    I have a few nitpicky things:

    1) After lassoing Ares and taking him down, she decides to turn her back on him to preach to the Prime Minister. And it was the Prime Minister who had to warn her that Ares was going to attack her. Um...total rookie mistake!

    2) I thought Diana's exclamation of "M..my weapons!" was just bizarre.

    3) That Diana was stunned to be asked to leave. Um...she did just invade a foreign country (exigent circumstances not withstanding). She just blamed Ares for starting a war and disregarding how it affects the country and citizens. She launched herself into this fight with Ares, causing addition damage and destruction. Why is she surprised to be considered as part of the whole fiasco?

    4) The power and ability of the lasso is made moot. In Perez's run, Ares saw the folly of his ways after being confronted with the truth of his mad plan. Rucka had Ares' claim to have evolved from war to conflict and not being Diana's direct enemy was verified by the lasso during his run. GWW wrote the lasso as just a rope/whip weapon. Despite Diana's proclamation about knowing how to use the lasso, she didn't do anything compelling with it.


    I'm cautiously optimistic about GWW's run, but so far it's been a tepid start for me.

    jBn
    I wouldn't hold my breath expecting better. Things have been more negative than positive for the Wonder verse. And it's been this way for a while.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackBNimble View Post
    Agree with others that this conclusion felt rushed. Overall, the issue was above average for me (3 stars), but the arc was 2 stars.

    The art was great and some of the action scenes were beautifully rendered.

    I have a few nitpicky things:

    1) After lassoing Ares and taking him down, she decides to turn her back on him to preach to the Prime Minister. And it was the Prime Minister who had to warn her that Ares was going to attack her. Um...total rookie mistake!

    2) I thought Diana's exclamation of "M..my weapons!" was just bizarre.

    3) That Diana was stunned to be asked to leave. Um...she did just invade a foreign country (exigent circumstances not withstanding). She just blamed Ares for starting a war and disregarding how it affects the country and citizens. She launched herself into this fight with Ares, causing addition damage and destruction. Why is she surprised to be considered as part of the whole fiasco?

    4) The power and ability of the lasso is made moot. In Perez's run, Ares saw the folly of his ways after being confronted with the truth of his mad plan. Rucka had Ares' claim to have evolved from war to conflict and not being Diana's direct enemy was verified by the lasso during his run. GWW wrote the lasso as just a rope/whip weapon. Despite Diana's proclamation about knowing how to use the lasso, she didn't do anything compelling with it.


    I'm cautiously optimistic about GWW's run, but so far it's been a tepid start for me.

    jBn
    Good points.

    Turning her back on Ares was indeed a newbie error unworthy of Wonder Woman. This and her surprise that she is asked to leave are some of the things that, for me, make it seem like this is a Wonder Woman with very little experience. The frustrating thing is that this is much at odds with most showcasings of Diana outside her book, like in JL and JL Dark [where she is pretty much team leader].

    The thing with the lasso I can overlook because, unlike the Perez story, Ares is not driven my madness as much as by misguided enthusiasm.

    But I do think it was an opportunity missed - having Diana use the lasso to confront Ares with their different philosophies about the conflict would have been more satisfying than Aphrodite just hand waving the problem away.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  7. #37
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    It makes me sad that a big transfer like GWW is not making the headlines. I thought it would be the best thing for Diana since Rucka.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    I wouldn't hold my breath expecting better. Things have been more negative than positive for the Wonder verse. And it's been this way for a while.

    As someone else mentioned, GWW did say it took a few issues to hit her stride in writing Wonder Woman. I'm gonna hold onto optimism for a little bit.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackBNimble View Post
    As someone else mentioned, GWW did say it took a few issues to hit her stride in writing Wonder Woman. I'm gonna hold onto optimism for a little bit.
    We don't know what finding her voice actually means. She already started the wrong way with me. By having a Diana that makes the mistakes of a newbie in battle. Doubting herself and her mission so easily, when she has been fighting evil for years. And portraying her as weak, with action and feats that aren't impressive at all.

  10. #40
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    This is the problem though when Greek mythology essentially becomes a pseudo-canon to Wonder Woman's world. It reminds me of how JK Rowling gets accused of having a 'positive' rape when centaurs abduct Umbridge. The entire crux of the argument being that centaurs behaved like this in classical mythology so therefore they're rapists in the Harry Potter universe.

    The thing is JK Rowling mostly takes the aesthetic of creatures from (mostly European) folklore, where as Wonder Woman authors often imply that the stories in Greek mythology are partially canon to the DC Universe. So really any direct link to Greek mythology is ripe with problematic conclusions. In Azzarello's run this isn't actually a problem because the pantheon are mostly implied to be bad/complicated characters and Wonder Woman never shows them any reverence or unearned respect. But with other run's that show Wonder Woman worshipping these beings, well, then you get problems. In Rucka's run for instance, Wonder Woman has her powers bestowed upon her by Zeus in conjunction with the other gods and he's by no means depicted as a bad guy. But in George Perez's work, Zeus is a creepo, but he doesn't have anything to do with creating WW.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This is the problem though when Greek mythology essentially becomes a pseudo-canon to Wonder Woman's world. It reminds me of how JK Rowling gets accused of having a 'positive' rape when centaurs abduct Umbridge. The entire crux of the argument being that centaurs behaved like this in classical mythology so therefore they're rapists in the Harry Potter universe.

    The thing is JK Rowling mostly takes the aesthetic of creatures from (mostly European) folklore, where as Wonder Woman authors often imply that the stories in Greek mythology are partially canon to the DC Universe. So really any direct link to Greek mythology is ripe with problematic conclusions. In Azzarello's run this isn't actually a problem because the pantheon are mostly implied to be bad/complicated characters and Wonder Woman never shows them any reverence or unearned respect. But with other run's that show Wonder Woman worshipping these beings, well, then you get problems. In Rucka's run for instance, Wonder Woman has her powers bestowed upon her by Zeus in conjunction with the other gods and he's by no means depicted as a bad guy. But in George Perez's work, Zeus is a creepo, but he doesn't have anything to do with creating WW.
    Perez often used the gods very apparent shortcomings as a story point. Hermes actively laments the fact that the gods are not worthy of Diana and her continuing faith in them.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Most anything can be filled with problematic or dated stuff, so it's not like it's a problem unique to Wonder Woman. And there are plenty of strategies that can be used to mitigate these problems.

    One is simple storytelling distance. Zeus's behaviour becomes much less problematic for the Wonder Woman comic if he isn't Diana's father (and that he isn't is also a good idea for a host of reasons not related to Zeus). Another is to make clear in the comics that the Olympians et c aren't meant to be viewed as good examples of moral behaviour. Pérez used that strategy with Zeus. A third and partly related is to look into what worship means for the Amazons and Diana; it likely is very different from what modern religion looks like: much less "honour god and let him give us grace" and far more "take this sacrifice and don't get angry at us".

    One interesting thing is that there are moral beings within Greek mythology, but they don't tend to be worshipped much. Prometheus is perhaps the best example. There are lots of stories about him, but the Greeks saw little practical reason to ask for help from a god who was chained to a rock and had his liver eaten daily by an eagle. Zeus OTOH was both powerful and bad-tempered, so best keep on his good side.

    How Wilson will navigate this I have no idea, but I believe her theological knowledge and moral compass is up to it. In fact, I think it's more up to it than any prior writer Wonder Woman writer. I think her handling of Nemesis and even more Hermaphroditus will test that.

  13. #43
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    Chip Zdarsky has a really bad start on Spectacular Spider-Man. His first couple issues were dreadful and I dropped the book. It took a while but he eventually turned his run around and now people say his run was one of the best Spidey runs we’ve had. I’m hoping that’s the case for Wilson as well. I’m not really happy we’re focusing on the gods but she is tying them to Diana’s human foes like Cale. I’ll give her until the second arc to win me over, hopefully she can do it. KSD has done really well on Aquaman despite me initially not being very enthusiastic about another DC hero having amnesia so it can be done.

  14. #44
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    I think it was a mistake to jump head first into mythology (again) especially using arguably Wonder Woman's main adversary Ares. If the first arc with the big gun is anticlimactic, where do you go from there? That remains to be seen. It would have been preferable to start with Giganta or someone else B-list and build toward stronger foes.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Perez often used the gods very apparent shortcomings as a story point. Hermes actively laments the fact that the gods are not worthy of Diana and her continuing faith in them.

    To this point, yes he did. But I don't think he took the point far enough or made Diana stand up for herself as much as she would have pre-Crisis.

    He wrote Diana as incredibly subservient to her gods--especially the moment on the beach with Zeus and then again when Hermes comes to live with Diana--to a point it's a bit excruciating to re-read in the MeToo/TimesUp moment. Only Hippolyta demonstrating any outrage and backbone against Zeus' creepy overtures.

    I don't mind if writers want to use "classic" Olympian behaviors.

    What I do want is for Diana to be strong, independent, powerful, confident, capable and grounded in herself. I hope that GWW is able to bring us this Diana.

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