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  1. #16
    BANNED The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I'm not gonna start anything! I mean if someone comes in all triggered by my stuff, then maybe lol. But not me personally. :P

    I've got an interest in DBZ stuff but have never had much interest in changing board perceptions of the characters. I just want to know what i can and cannot attempt to argue with this stuff.

    I mean, years ago, before I took my break, ssj3 Goku was superman level. When I got back on, Frieza would stomp him in threads. Raditz can fry Hulk/Thor. Guys nearly Buu level might not beat Nu Superman!?

    HELP.
    One of the things that happened is that Frieza was actually shown planet busting in first form (in canon) in DB Super flashback to the vegeta (the planet) scene, resolving a long running controversy over planet busting and everyone consequently got a boost in feats from there on

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    One of the things that happened is that Frieza was actually shown planet busting in first form (in canon) in DB Super flashback to the vegeta (the planet) scene, resolving a long running controversy over planet busting and everyone consequently got a boost in feats from there on
    Ohhhhh that makes so much sense.
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  3. #18

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    Assuming the anime version of the Trio.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvel-Studios Rep View Post
    The 3 Kryptonians take on the trio de danger.

    1) lets assume speed is fairly close all around.
    As far as I can recall none of the Trio have shown that they can breathe in space, so throwing them far enough that they can't come back before suffocating is an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvel-Studios Rep View Post
    2) No speed equal.
    Even taking the lowest possible reasonable interpretation of the Trio*, they can't hurt Bergamo at all, and will all die when he blows up the arena.

    *: Good Fat Buu in Super is around DBZ SSJ2-level and so are they.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    It's a big struggle when it comes to anime vs. manga, admittedly. But, no joke, watching TFS and summarizing the big battles has led me to believe that the power gaps and jumps between sagas isn't actually as wide as we tend to believe on the board -- wide, yes, but I sometimes think we exaggerate.
    Why would you change your judgment of the series based on what's essentially a fanfic instead of taking like 10 minutes to check the actual manga?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    I mean, don't get me wrong, Buu >>>>>>> Raditz obviously, but the manga is sometimes less concerned about quantifying or explaining the gap than the anime, which often has the filler of additional powerlevel readings, preferring to leave things more open ended. That's how we get Roshi rejoining the team; I don't think the manga actually took the time to even write up a single line saying that he's been training, whereas the anime had a sub-arc all about it.
    You're conflating the relationship between Z's manga and anime, and Super's manga and anime, which one should not do.

    Z's anime was an adaptation of Toriyama's manga and included non-canon filler in order to buy time, filler that it itself ignores whenever it would contradict a plot point from the manga.

    Super's anime is made concurrently to Toyotaro's manga (usually being ahead, though it's currently behind due to being on hold) and is not based upon it. They have completely different interpretations of scenes and characters, and cannot be taken as equivalent. Nothing in the Super anime is 'filler', because it isn't adapting the manga to begin with.
    Last edited by Siriel; 01-17-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    Why would you change your judgment of the series based on what's essentially a fanfic instead of taking like 10 minutes to check the actual manga?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying TFS is canon by any means nor a direct translation of anything in Z. But it does help contextualize things *because* it sticks closer to the manga (at least starting with the Android Saga), including the fact that by nature of manga's form and limitations, it's faster paced. For all the comedy it does, TFS still more or less lives up to the "abridged" part of the anime -- if you'll notice, they very rarely riff on filler and padding, and it's much more attentive of the manga.

    And, at least in the west, the anime is the dominant media of Dragon Ball, even though the manga came first. But distilling the anime down to at least the beats of the manga is something that TFS does fairly well, even better than Kai since Kai still has to maintain things in televised media like pacing and long shots, things that translate differently between print media.

    You're conflating the relationship between Z's manga and anime, and Super's manga and anime, which one should not do.

    Z's anime was an adaptation of Toriyama's manga and included non-canon filler in order to buy time, filler that it itself ignores whenever it would contradict a plot point from the manga.

    Super's anime is made concurrently to Toyotaro's manga (usually being ahead, though it's currently behind due to being on hold) and is not based upon it. They have completely different interpretations of scenes and characters, and cannot be taken as equivalent. Nothing in the Super anime is 'filler', because it isn't adapting the manga to begin with.
    I also didn't say (or mean to say) that Super anime is filler (but yes, I was talking about Z-filler). I'm saying that anime and manga handle the material differently, which affects perception of feats and powerlevels.
    Last edited by Cyke; 01-18-2019 at 09:40 AM.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    I mean, the Cell Saga started with a powered up version of the main villain from the previous arc getting casually shredded to pieces and vaporized by a guy who was trying to prevent the first villains of the new arc from getting activated because they had been beyond him, and then it turned out that, not only were the versions of those new villains in this timeline apparently much stronger than the ones in his own, they head an even stronger friend that he never knew about, and were basically designed to be easily surpassed snacks for the actual villain, who ended up being stopping enough to one shot their stronger friend in his second form, was able to fart out henchmen who could match a significantly powered up version of Goku than the one that fought Frieza when he reached his Final Form, and got an Extra Final Form that made him allegedly strong enough to blow up the entire solar system in one shot.
    Last edited by The Drunkard Kid; 01-19-2019 at 09:44 PM.

  6. #21
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    The foreign market is no joke. Surprised it did so ... mediocre, domestic though. Thought it was the best DC movie by far.
    Talk about a low bar to clear.
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  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Talk about a low bar to clear.
    Wonder Woman didn't suck.

    And Bale Batman movies.


    Buuut other than those. *sigh*
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  8. #23
    BANNED The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    What you guys actually mean is that the current DCEU sucks because the original Superman movies, Keaton Batman and Nolan trilogy are pop culture milestones in a way the MCU wishes it could be

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    What you guys actually mean is that the current DCEU sucks because the original Superman movies, Keaton Batman and Nolan trilogy are pop culture milestones in a way the MCU wishes it could be
    Pop Culture milestones doesn't necessarily mean "good". I mean, most of the original Superman movies are preeeetty awful.

    This is all pointless though. It's ultimately subjective. Even objective reasoning such as critic review comparisons or box office earnings can be looked at or dismissed a dozen different ways.

    I gave up trying to argue "good" or "bad" movies on an objective level after certain movies came out. But I hardly can be bothered to derail the thread with that story.
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  10. #25
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    Hmm I guess you're right. "Good" is pretty subjective. Still I feel considering the time that has elapsed and general consensus from critics and audience, (some/most of, delete as appropriate) the movies mentioned are generally considered "good"

    I think because even The Dark Knight was more than a decade ago now, people tend to forget DC movies were good / great once before they started blindly aping /playing catch up to Marvel

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Hmm I guess you're right. "Good" is pretty subjective. Still I feel considering the time that has elapsed and general consensus from critics and audience, (some/most of, delete as appropriate) the movies mentioned are generally considered "good"

    I think because even The Dark Knight was more than a decade ago now, people tend to forget DC movies were good / great once before they started blindly aping /playing catch up to Marvel
    My God. How old am I!? *spirals out of control*

    Ahem. Anyways, yeah I get your point.
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  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Pop Culture milestones doesn't necessarily mean "good". I mean, most of the original Superman movies are preeeetty awful.
    1 is a classic and 2 had Terrence Stamp Zod. The other ones... yeeeaaahhh.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    1 is a classic and 2 had Terrence Stamp Zod. The other ones... yeeeaaahhh.
    My father owns a signed VHS copy of the original. I love that movie.
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  14. #29
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    I mean if you want to an example of how good is subjective; I think the Nolan Batman films are generally bad.

    My favourite is Dark Knight Rises because it's more of a fun hot mess.

  15. #30
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    I find Superman 1 and 2 kind of hard to judge, so I'm kind of neutral on them. I love the Tim Burton Batman movies for a bunch of reasons that hold up well to this day. The Nolan Batman movies are like they set out to make a series of movies that would piss me off on every level but then stuck Heath Ledger's Joker in them so that I'd have to asterisk every comment I made about how much I hate those movies until the end of time.

    Haven't watched any of the modern DC movies; I hear Aquaman is good?
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