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  1. #31
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I didn’t like how Reed Richards just stepped right back into “Doom despising” character, even though his whole purpose of leaving was to make Doom a better man. I’m not sure if Doom and Reed have met yet, since Reeds return.

    Are we to understand Reed Richards has an altered point of view about Victor von Doom since Reed was away? I was led to believe that the whole point of being away was it was better for the Earth that Reed be away, and now, he had to come back, is everything going to go south? This would be very depressing for Reed to realise, that his presence alongside Victor makes the Earth head towards destruction, as it eventually did in Secret Wars 2015.

    As it does appear that this first arc is addressing what Doom and Reed have to say to each other, now Reed is back, I can see a possibility that Doom deliberately precipitated a glory moment in front of Richards, by coaxing a real major threat out in the open to show Richards, Victor is capable. It’s not a bad way of showing that. I suspect Reed is aware it’s all for show that Victor did this, or, Reed assumes that’s what this is, as he says in the book. I will be very interested if this 5 issue arc is the conversation between Reed and Victor on why and what happens that Reed is back.

    I’m not sure if it will be addressed how Secret Wars 2015 ended, and if Victor asks where the Molecule Man is now. There is an outstanding issue here that Reed will say Victor did an awful job saving Earth as Battleworld, and, Victor admitting Reed did a good job making Earth as ANAD. I’d like to hear where that conversation goes.
    Reed's philosophy was that Victor would be better without Reed around to brood over. Victor without always trying to upstage reed would have a better shot at being the good person he supposedly could be. How the four relate to Doom and who knows what matter here. Whatever crap Reed pulled on Victor as recounted in M2i1 should matter. Ben's actually gotten some respect for Victor through M2i1 and Infamous. Who knows what Sue know about Doom and Secret Wars. She may have an opinion on that.

    Doom's obviously pulling something. It doesn't seem to be a secret to anybody and we don't believe Galactus just showed up for a midnight snack. The question is: is Doom doing a good deed in an evil way, or is he a bad guy with good intentions. It may very well be that Doom is in the right and the FF will stop themselves before making things worse.

    And Victor should know that telling Reed to stay away from a Doom/Galactus throwdown in Latveria is practically sending a limo to pick the FF up. I can't think of any FF villain who wouldn't realize that.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member Flashback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I didn’t like how Reed Richards just stepped right back into “Doom despising” character, even though his whole purpose of leaving was to make Doom a better man. I’m not sure if Doom and Reed have met yet, since Reeds return.
    I think they met in "Marvel two in one" the annual.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
    I think they met in "Marvel two in one" the annual.
    That was an alternate reality Reed.
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  4. #34

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    how many distinct times has Galactus attacked earth in its history? Assuming his first appearance in Fantastic Four was the first time he came to earth.
    this is a sidebar that has yet to be addressed. why is he so interested in Earth when it gives him the most problems?

  5. #35
    iMan 42s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    how many distinct times has Galactus attacked earth in its history? Assuming his first appearance in Fantastic Four was the first time he came to earth.
    this is a sidebar that has yet to be addressed. why is he so interested in Earth when it gives him the most problems?
    Not sure how many times Galactus has been there but this time it seems it's just because of the cosmic energy Victorious seems to be outputting this time. I genuinely don't know the end-game to something like this.
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  6. #36
    Spectacular Member Gridde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Reed's philosophy was that Victor would be better without Reed around to brood over. Victor without always trying to upstage reed would have a better shot at being the good person he supposedly could be. How the four relate to Doom and who knows what matter here. Whatever crap Reed pulled on Victor as recounted in M2i1 should matter. Ben's actually gotten some respect for Victor through M2i1 and Infamous. Who knows what Sue know about Doom and Secret Wars. She may have an opinion on that.
    Not that this issue alludes to any of that at all, aside from the throwaway "so much much for Victor turning over a new leaf" line. You could read this and be forgiven for thinking it takes place pre-Secret Wars.

    I'm sure there will be a twist to this, because it seems almost intentionally malicious to ignore/undo the work others put it in on MTiO and Infamous.
    People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.

  7. #37
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    That was an alternate reality Reed.
    I don't think so. Remember with the collapse of all universes into Battleworld, Doom found no other versions of Reed after searching all the kingdoms. Of course we know he survived on the raft and the Maker was on the other. Even prior to that, there were fewer Reed than there should have been but the Mad Celestials were hunting them down and killing them. Except for the two remaining ones that were merged to form the new Supreme Intelligence. Just as prior to that, the Council of Reeds were hunting down the Dooms and lobotomizing them. So at the great reboot, there was only Reed and his family, plus the Maker. Reed has in essence been creating all the new versions of himself that we saw in his revival of the Council of Reeds in the MTIO annual. Granted some of Zdarsky's dialogue is a bit confusing. But notice there is only one bearded Reed in the group. And Victor clearly thinks the Reed he is talking to is "his" Reed.




  8. #38
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Did anyone else here get the Director's Cut edition of this issue? I didn't see one (actually, I didn't think to look for one) at my LCS but you can buy it at the Marvel Store for the same price as the regular issue.

    It has Slott's instructions to artist Aaron Kuder and some variant covers I've not seen. Plus a nice character design page of Victorious



  9. #39
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Wake me up when Superior Reed happens

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I don't think so. Remember with the collapse of all universes into Battleworld, Doom found no other versions of Reed after searching all the kingdoms. Of course we know he survived on the raft and the Maker was on the other. Even prior to that, there were fewer Reed than there should have been but the Mad Celestials were hunting them down and killing them. Except for the two remaining ones that were merged to form the new Supreme Intelligence. Just as prior to that, the Council of Reeds were hunting down the Dooms and lobotomizing them. So at the great reboot, there was only Reed and his family, plus the Maker. Reed has in essence been creating all the new versions of himself that we saw in his revival of the Council of Reeds in the MTIO annual. Granted some of Zdarsky's dialogue is a bit confusing. But notice there is only one bearded Reed in the group. And Victor clearly thinks the Reed he is talking to is "his" Reed.



    He may be bearded but he doesn't talk about the events that happened in the first person. Which is a big sign that he is not our Reed, plus he doesn't have a uniform with the classic 4 logo. The biggest thing that tells us it's not our Reed is that this would have been his first appearance in the present since he went away. No way would they have him back in an easily skipped annual with no fanfare.

    Doom talks to him like it's his Reed because he doesn't care. All of them have the sin of being Reed Richards in his opinion.
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  11. #41
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    He may be bearded but he doesn't talk about the events that happened in the first person. Which is a big sign that he is not our Reed, plus he doesn't have a uniform with the classic 4 logo. The biggest thing that tells us it's not our Reed is that this would have been his first appearance in the present since he went away. No way would they have him back in an easily skipped annual with no fanfare.

    Doom talks to him like it's his Reed because he doesn't care. All of them have the sin of being Reed Richards in his opinion.
    The issue was promoted as the return of the Council of Reeds. And we do know by MTIO 11 that Reed has spent a lot of time on his own checking up on the recreated worlds. It looks like Reed is removing the memory of meeting him as their conversation ends. It would make sense that Reed would check up on Victor's progress. We'll just have to disagree...the bearded Reed knows a lot about this Victor so that is a bit suspicious. And why would that Reed say "I've missed you, Victor" if they didn't know each other?
    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 01-20-2019 at 01:01 PM.

  12. #42
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    It's frankly one of the things I dislike about the retcon of Reed having tampered with things. Animosity between the two can be created from simply how both approach a problem. Nobody needed Reed to mindwipe anybody nor do I think anybody even wanted that. It really does kind of **** all over the ending of Secret Wars and the developments Victor has had since. Back in Infamous Iron man it only confirmed what people speculated about Victor ruling all that remained, he wasn't happy. He had full control but he wasn't happy and found that the world he created was imperfect. He wasn't satisfied with it and ultimately it cost him more pain than it was worth. He had the better part of a decade+ to figure that out and when he admitted Reed was the better man for the job the only thing that held him back was the ego. But even then it simply was not being worth it and he decided his time is better spent elsewhere.

    I really don't know what was so hard to follow.
    He attained full control, found it didn't really suit him, got over his ego, returned home to build himself back up into the hero the world deserved even if they didn't know it or wanted it.

    So basically going into this issue with the implication that everything is back in the toybox is a disservice.
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  13. #43
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    He may be bearded but he doesn't talk about the events that happened in the first person. Which is a big sign that he is not our Reed, plus he doesn't have a uniform with the classic 4 logo. The biggest thing that tells us it's not our Reed is that this would have been his first appearance in the present since he went away. No way would they have him back in an easily skipped annual with no fanfare.

    Doom talks to him like it's his Reed because he doesn't care. All of them have the sin of being Reed Richards in his opinion.
    That particular meeting in MTIO annual with the Council Of Reeds and our Doom just showed Doom deluded himself that his Reed mind wiped him when Reed didn’t. And because Doom killed the Multiverse Doom, it told COR’s that this Doom had reverted back to form, because our Doom couldn’t accept Reed being back, so they were now at odds again. Now we know the Doom in the FF series is the old vindictive Doom, continually chasing after our Reed to kill him.

  14. #44
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    I finally got my copy of Fantastic Four#6.And from the comic books i got it was the first one i read.
    The story was great,looking forward to know what´s Doctor Doom plan.This is looking to be a great story arc of Doctor Doom.
    Victorious role in the story arc is intriguing enough,and the next issue having the Fantastic Four clashing with Doctor Doom and Galactus should be awesome.
    Art wise,Aaron Kuder illustrations were good.The art is another reason why i am reading this comic book besides the stories by Dan Slott.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Dispite the hype that surrounded Two-In-One as being part of a wider story, F4 seems to be treating it as if it was never written. Hardly anything has been acknowledged and some seems contradictory. For my sanity I am completely discounting it unless it proves important later.

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