Magic In Wonder Woman

[WonderScott]

Also, she has advanced technology in some continuities.

I think also part of the problem, as mentioned, is that magic in the DCU nowadays is heavily influenced by Vertigo comics, and usually stories centered around magic try their best to keep to the Vertigo Comics style, whereas sci-fi based comics in the DCU are much more varied in their styles. There's plenty you could read into how people approach fantasy nowadays (not to mention "science fantasies" like Star Wars and Doctor Who) from that.

Excellent point LordUltimus. The John Constantine-ing effect that began in the DCnU.

I’d be fascinated by a series that dove into the nature of magic in the DCU. Are there different kinds? Do you have to have certain biological traits to access some types of magic versus others that may be learned by study and ritual alone? Do any of the two aforementioned things overlap? Are divine, eldritch, Homo magi, natural, demonic, etc. types of magic from different sources or do they all pull from one “sea” of magical energy?

There’s a lot that DC could play with their, develop some rules for its magical system(s), and still leave some open-ended for growth and creativity.

[WonderScott]

Superman has a lack of magically Resistance. We have seen him several times almost die due to magic. Cheetah, Circe and Diana have all harmed Superman. Diana on the other hand has been shown to have a bit more resistance

I’ve seen her have some resistance, by usage of the lasso, but not really anything else tied to her being. (But maybe I’m forgetting some incidents.) In any event, Cheetah and Circe have also harmed Wonder Woman (especially the latter.)

It’s a personal thing, but I guess I like that she has to struggle against magic, without any specific resistance, excluding her physical power and prowess and mental acuity that makes her tough to take on in a scenario, magic or not.

[WonderScott]

Guess you missed this nonsense then



But beyond that, the whole 'sharp objects' thing is a much broader (and dumber) weakness than just about any hero out there these days. One by one, they've taken away a lot of the major weaknesses of the heroes, but Diana's just seem to get used more and more.

So yeah, I'm all for a high magical resistance since a normal person with a normal gun could kill her.

Haha! I haven’t forgotten.

I’m all for Aquaman and other superstrong heroes getting some good hits in on Superman and Wonder Woman and Shazam, because they aren’t weak and have skills, but I don’t see them lasting as long against Black Adam or Cheetah or Maxima, as other ultrastrong “flying bricks” would.

[WonderScott]

Great discussion points and opinions everyone! I’m really enjoying everyone bringing their interpretation of Diana and magic to the comments.

The differing thoughts definitely make me think more about my interpretation and what makes it good/bad/okay.

[LordUltimus]

Guess you missed this nonsense then



But beyond that, the whole 'sharp objects' thing is a much broader (and dumber) weakness than just about any hero out there these days. One by one, they've taken away a lot of the major weaknesses of the heroes, but Diana's just seem to get used more and more.

So yeah, I'm all for a high magical resistance since a normal person with a normal gun could kill her.

Haha! I haven’t forgotten.

I’m all for Aquaman and other superstrong heroes getting some good hits in on Superman and Wonder Woman and Shazam, because they aren’t weak and have skills, but I don’t see them lasting as long against Black Adam or Cheetah or Maxima, as other ultrastrong “flying bricks” would.

To be fair, that one ends with Aquaman specifically noting that Superman was holding back.

Also, jeez look at Arthur's spine! That's something that Liefeld at his worst wouldn't do!

[Phoenixx9]

Wow! Arthur sure packs a wallop!

[Incognito]

Being magical and being innate are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of magical characters in the DCU born with their powers like Zatanna, Nightshade, Raven and Traci 13.

I was talking about physical capabilities, what I meant is that due to Wonder Woman's nature of being a demigod, her physical capabilities are naturally superior compare to a normal human with peak physical capabilities, it is written in her physiology, the godly 'DNA' (if gods do have DNA or not) she inhertrited from, makes her physical condition and natural capabilities more advanced than normal beings.

WW's capabilites is not something to do with magic, because if it was it could be turned off and WW's condition is not magic it is built-in to her dna, like for example, MMH's psionic abilities are a part of his physiology as well as Superman and Supergirl who gets their powers from their alien biology, and the yellow sun is the source to activate their advanced cells to operate and function their capabilities.

[LordUltimus]

I was talking about physical capabilities, what I meant is that due to Wonder Woman's nature of being a demigod, her physical capabilities are naturally superior compare to a normal human with peak physical capabilities, it is written in her physiology, the godly 'DNA' (if gods do have DNA or not) she inhertrited from, makes her physical condition and natural capabilities more advanced than normal beings.

WW's capabilites is not something to do with magic, because if it was it could be turned off and WW's condition is not magic it is built-in to her dna, like for example, MMH's psionic abilities are a part of his physiology as well as Superman and Supergirl who gets their powers from their alien biology, and the yellow sun is the source to activate their advanced cells to operate and function their capabilities.

And the ability to cast spells is is written in the physiology of Homo Magi.

[Gaelforce]

And the ability to cast spells is is written in the physiology of Homo Magi.

And Batman...

[LadyP]

I think a lot of this comes down to both storytelling choices and the way magic is depicted.

Tynion went into this a bit in the opening of JLD, with how the other characters in the magic corner of DC see Diana as apart from them. The type of stories where writers put characters like John Constantine or Swamp Thing or Nightmaster are different (or at least used to be different) from the stories writers put Diana in.

Then you have the spellcasting stuff. I don't see Diana as a spellcaster like Zatanna or even John Constantine, but I think she can be depicted as a magic user where the magic is grounded in small magics, prayer, and protection. The reason she is a hard target for magics is partly because of who she is, partly because of the lasso of truth (as discussed in A League of One), but partly also because she as part of her daily life regularly performs protective rituals in various forms. A quick invocation to Hecate when she crosses doorways, a simple sacrifice to Hestia whenever she has prepared food, and so on. Now, she might not think of it as magic, but I see it as an important part of what makes Wonder Woman so powerful.

That's the defining point. Diana is a being of magic whether clay origin (preferred) or having Zeus as her biological father. Being of magical origin does not automatically translate to her casting spells. However, I agree and it would be in line with her Amazonian heritage if magic is something that she is able to invoke whether through rituals and/or prayers and used as a form of protection. We have seen evidence of this in the past as in Legends of the DC Universe (Vol 1 30): The 18th Letter, in which Diana stated that she prepared herself and it is implied that it is through magical means before embarking on the night with Alcmaeon as a means of protecting herself against any trick/act from him.

I can't remember Diana applying magic in A League of One, however, it is her knowledge of mystical things, which allowed her to know about the dragon and the sacrifice that was to be made.

When it comes to magic, that's really how I see it as it relates to Diana as something that is inherently a part of her, she should be knowledgeable in just about all things mystical as it relates to either ancient or modern mystical beings on earth. Magic is a part of Amazon culture (prayers/rituals; used for both physical protection as well as being imbued in their weaponry; it is used for fortifying their defenses as with the barrier that protects Themyscira from Man's World.

I feel that coming from a background that is entrenched in the mystical as well as being a creation of magic herself, Diana should be able to sense when she is around things of magic. It should be this along with her background knowledge of things of mystical nature that would give her an edge over other JLA members with more limited knowledge.

[Agent Z]

I was talking about physical capabilities, what I meant is that due to Wonder Woman's nature of being a demigod, her physical capabilities are naturally superior compare to a normal human with peak physical capabilities, it is written in her physiology, the godly 'DNA' (if gods do have DNA or not) she inhertrited from, makes her physical condition and natural capabilities more advanced than normal beings.

WW's capabilites is not something to do with magic, because if it was it could be turned off and WW's condition is not magic it is built-in to her dna, like for example, MMH's psionic abilities are a part of his physiology as well as Superman and Supergirl who gets their powers from their alien biology, and the yellow sun is the source to activate their advanced cells to operate and function their capabilities.

Again, DC has characters whose magical abilities are built into their DNA. There is nothing about Diana being born with her abilities that makes them not magical. Hell, you even question if gods have DNA at all so if they don't, why is Diana's powers being magical in nature not possible? That these abilities manifest in forms of super strength and the like doesn't mean they aren't magical in nature.

[Incognito]

And the ability to cast spells is is written in the physiology of Homo Magi.

I was talking about physical capabilites, and how they are not related to magic but part of their biology.

Yes, you could say that magic is part of homo Magi physiology but I think it is more connected with the soul and they use their mind as a cataylst to tap into their internal power. From my viewpoint, magic at is core is metaphysical/ethereal.

[Incognito]

Again, DC has characters whose magical abilities are built into their DNA. There is nothing about Diana being born with her abilities that makes them not magical. Hell, you even question if gods have DNA at all so if they don't, why is Diana's powers being magical in nature not possible? That these abilities manifest in forms of super strength and the like doesn't mean they aren't magical in nature.

Diana does not have magic-powered abilities, her abilities come from her own natural abilities. I was talking about physical abilities such as strength, speed and stamina and how it relates to her nature being a demi-God, not talking about any type of sorcery or spellcsting. The gods could be immaterial beings, there was not a lot of information about them if they do have DNA or not, Demigods like Diana are physical beings, from my last message I express the word 'DNA' because there was no evidence if God's do have DNA or not, their status as being higher beings must have enhanced her body and mind. The only attributes I think which it is magic is from the feather she got from Hermes which gives her the power of flight and her brief time as the goddess of war. Shazam is powered by magic (via The Wizard who acts as a sponsor to Billy) and use that magic for his transformation, physical, mental and esoteric abilities.

[Agent Z]

Diana does not have magic-powered abilities, her strength is from her own natural abilities. I was talking about physical abilities such as strength, speed and stamina and how it relates to her nature being a demi-god. The gods could be immaterial beings, there was not a lot of information about them if they do have DNA or not, Demigods like Diana are physical beings, from my last message I express the word 'DNA' because there was no evidence if God's do have DNA or not, their status as being higher beings must have enhanced her body and mind. The only attributes I think which it is magic is from the feather she got from Hermes which gives her the power of flight and her brief time as the goddess of war. Shazam is powered by magic (via The Wizard who acts as a sponsor to Billy) and use that magic for his transformation, physical, mental and esoteric abilities.

You've yet to explain how Diana's natural abilities aren't magical in nature. You know she isn't an alien or metahuman, right? Again, there are people born magical in the DCU. What part of this is confusing you? The gods aren't immaterial either. They're flesh and blood like everyone else.

[Incognito]

You've yet to explain how Diana's natural abilities aren't magical in nature. You know she isn't an alien or metahuman, right? Again, there are people born magical in the DCU. What part of this is confusing you? The gods aren't immaterial either. They're flesh and blood like everyone else.

What I am trying to explain is that Wonder Woman (Post-Crisis version) natural capabilities comes from her own as a demi-god, If it was the Pre-New 52 version then her abilities would be magical because she was made from magical clay and was given powers externally by the greek gods, but the recent version of Diana, her abilities has been naturally built in, and it always been a part of her, and that is the reason why I don't think it has to do anything with being magic other than her ability to fly. I know that she is not an alien or a metahuman, she is pretty much an ultraterrestial, this is just my opinion of how I view Diana's physical capabilities. I said they could be immaterial, did not say they are immaterial. In Greek Mythology, the Gods' 'blood' is Ichor, an ethereal fluid, that is the reason why I stated that it is a possibility that they are immaterial (or mostly immaterial because of their 'blood').