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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Default Was the West Coast Avengers relaunch a wasted opportunity?

    I pointed this out in the Hawkeye thread. I really think a West Coast Avengers relaunch could've been good, but it suffered from a bad premise and executive meddling.

    To begin, the biggest fault with the premise itself is the Reality TV slant. Nowadays, reality television is but a minor niche and widely mocked with even those who watch it considering them to be guilty pleasures. It would make sense a decade ago, when it was in, but why did that become the premise of the 2018-19 series?

    Second, the executive meddling. I remember reading the original plan was for it to be a more serious comic, with the roster being the Hawkeyes both Clint Barton and Kate Bishop, America, She-Hulk, Tigra and Hazmat from Avengers Academy. I get the sense it would've been like a modern take of the WCA property, with members both old and new, but keeping a similar style. It also would've put Clint in a harem with five other women, and that would've been interesting to see.

    The editors forced writer Kelly Thompson to shuffle out the roster for Gwenpool, Quentin Quire, Fuse (Kate's boyfriend from her series), and later Noh-Varr and Fuse's sister Alloy, and make it a soft relaunch of Young Avengers. The youth-oriented cast and snarky, surreal, Generation Z type writing style, teen romance subplots, and LGBT themes was a very clear riff on Kieron Gillen's Young Avengers run, and had more in common with that than the West Coast Avengers as a whole. It also meant that Clint was the member of the old WCA to be here, and he felt rather tacked on.

    That's the very sad thing. I really wish we could've seen the WCA relaunch Kelly Thompson originally planned. She didn't even want Gwenpool by way of not liking her (though Gwen did grow on her over time admittedly). I would rather have the more serious WCA comic with members both old and new, and the funny situation of Clint being the one guy on a team full of women, rather than not-Young Avengers. Why didn't they just relaunch the Young Avengers title by that point anyways?

    So really, was this a wasted opportunity? Knowing what was originally planned, I wish that could've seen the light of day over what we got.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I personally was a big fan of Thompson's West Coast Avengers, mainly because it was essentially a direct continuation of her Hawkeye, which was one of my favourite recent ongoings, so getting more of that style of writing, with that narrative and her Kate I was all for.

    Also I really liked the team, it's basically just Kate's co-stars with Gwenpool and Quentin thrown in, and I'm a Gwenpool fanboy so I'll absolutely dig anytime she shows up in anything, though I do agree those two do feel off/tonally separate compared to the others.

    I also agree the reality TV setting is a big awkward. I didn't mind completely because it led to alot of funny jokes and was mainly used as cutaways rather than really being apart of the main narrative, but it is still odd that it was there in the first place.

    I've never been completely attached to the original West Coast Avengers, so it didn't bug me how tonally different/separate it is, just really saw it as brand repeating and that's about it. Though I still would've loved to see what she would've done with her original concept and cast that was closer to the OG book.

    Oh, and this book gave us Jeff The Land Shark, so it'll always be an A+ for that
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Sonic The Hedgehog, Absolute Carnage, Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Gwenpool Strikes Back, Runaways, The White Trees

  3. #3
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I didn't really like the appropriation of the West Coast Avengers name, but I thought it was a fun book even if it felt more like Thompson riffing on her own take on the New Warriors/Young Avengers then an actual West Coast Avengers book.

    I guess it was also a continuation of Thompson's Hawkeye book but I kinda missed the Veronica Mars female-noir element of that series in favor of wacky heroics.

    I also think she had an...okay take on Gwenpool? Although I feel like she's a character where it's hard to get the voice exactly write past their original writer. Same with Deadpool to some degree.

    Quire wasn't completely unlikable so I guess there's an accomplishment.

    I feel like Clint deserved a bit better but he wasn't written that bad so I could let it slide a little.

    (Oh, and the book totally confirmed Kate Bishop goes commando in-costume, so I guess there's that...)

  4. #4
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    This was the only place I actually enjoyed QQ, maybe ever. Overall, the book was... okay. I really didn't think the plot with Kate's mom was anything very good, and certainly not good enough to warrant such a major twist in her backstory. Jeff, as stated, was great.

    I don't really think "West Coast Avengers" is a very good title for a book.

  5. #5
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    The premise for a modern WCA series needs to be different because the premise of the original WCA wasn't very good and makes much less sense today. As for the actual attempt, the first trade getting delayed to hell because KT fucked up the arc structure on the first two stories needs to be considered as one of the reasons it died. I also thought it was just okay. It looked very nice. I remember not loving her Gwenpool, but hindsight compared to what we have now makes me realize it wasn't how she was written, it was the Quentin plot. A man who's only love should be torturing Logan. The group's best story was the Superior Spider-Man adventure. Overall, I'm glad the book existed even if I don't understand why you need to be from another planet to be a second Avengers title in Cebulski-land.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I really liked Thompson's run, i thought it was fun, so I don't consider it a waste. I also think you are overstating how much was 'forced' on her, from what I've read about it, but in any case, editorial requesting characters is not exactly uncommon. Not sure it strictly needed to be called West Coast Avengers, but I also don't think a team name has to be restricted to a certain group of characters or concept every time.

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Surprised there's the support. I just feel it's an in-name only series of a classic title that's functionally closer to the Young Avengers, has an outdated premise with the Reality TV angle, and could've been so much better given the original plan. It's kind of a bummer it worked out that way.

  8. #8
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    Seems weird they wouldnt let her use her og cast when the only one majorly being used would have been she-hulk in Arrons Avengers.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    I remember reading the original plan was for it to be a more serious comic, with the roster being the Hawkeyes both Clint Barton and Kate Bishop, America, She-Hulk, Tigra and Hazmat from Avengers Academy.
    I would love to read that team! Put cloud 9 on there also!


    I also agree the reality TV setting is a big awkward.
    That put me off of it also. Still picked it up but hated the tv theme in new warriors and hated it here. It never should have been there.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member
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    Jeff the Land Shark was the only redeeming quality....none of those characters (except of course Clint) really screams "Avenger" at me.

    If it had been a more traditional WCA type continuation with Hawkeye, Tigra and maybe 1 other old timer (maybe Living Lightning) with 3-4 newbies then maybe it would have worked out for me.

  11. #11
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    As a big fan of Thompson's Hawkeye, I expected to love her WCA run but it didn't click for me and I dropped it two issues in.

    That said, I wouldn't call it a wasted opportunity. They tried something different and it didn't take off. It happens. Clearly some readers liked it quite a bit, there just wasn't enough of those readers to keep the book going.

    The wonderful thing about comics is that there's room for experimentation. You can take a creative chance on a book and if it doesn't work out, well, at least you gave it a shot. And the fact that whatever you did failed to find an audience doesn't prevent another try with those characters or that book down the line with another creative team.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I pointed this out in the Hawkeye thread. I really think a West Coast Avengers relaunch could've been good, but it suffered from a bad premise and executive meddling.

    To begin, the biggest fault with the premise itself is the Reality TV slant. Nowadays, reality television is but a minor niche and widely mocked with even those who watch it considering them to be guilty pleasures. It would make sense a decade ago, when it was in, but why did that become the premise of the 2018-19 series?

    Second, the executive meddling. I remember reading the original plan was for it to be a more serious comic, with the roster being the Hawkeyes both Clint Barton and Kate Bishop, America, She-Hulk, Tigra and Hazmat from Avengers Academy. I get the sense it would've been like a modern take of the WCA property, with members both old and new, but keeping a similar style. It also would've put Clint in a harem with five other women, and that would've been interesting to see.

    The editors forced writer Kelly Thompson to shuffle out the roster for Gwenpool, Quentin Quire, Fuse (Kate's boyfriend from her series), and later Noh-Varr and Fuse's sister Alloy, and make it a soft relaunch of Young Avengers. The youth-oriented cast and snarky, surreal, Generation Z type writing style, teen romance subplots, and LGBT themes was a very clear riff on Kieron Gillen's Young Avengers run, and had more in common with that than the West Coast Avengers as a whole. It also meant that Clint was the member of the old WCA to be here, and he felt rather tacked on.

    That's the very sad thing. I really wish we could've seen the WCA relaunch Kelly Thompson originally planned. She didn't even want Gwenpool by way of not liking her (though Gwen did grow on her over time admittedly). I would rather have the more serious WCA comic with members both old and new, and the funny situation of Clint being the one guy on a team full of women, rather than not-Young Avengers. Why didn't they just relaunch the Young Avengers title by that point anyways?

    So really, was this a wasted opportunity? Knowing what was originally planned, I wish that could've seen the light of day over what we got.

    Discuss.
    Weren't Fuse and Alloy always going to be there? And Hazmat never was. Kelly was using her in Captain Marvel instead. The enforced roster change from her pitch was Quentin and Gwen instead of Tigra and the legitimately unavailable She-Hulk. Tigra still got used, she just didn't join the team.

    The reason it wasn't called Young Avengers is because people expect that team to have Wiccan, Hulkling, and Speed. Though Bleeding Cool is saying the next Champions series will take the YA name (presumably Kate, and maybe Cassie, would be included to justify that), and we know Wiccan and Hulkling will be busy elsewhere.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    In a word....YES

    They butchered it cause that isn't what WCA legacy should've been twisted into.

    If editorially they wanted those characters together then come up with something new.
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

  14. #14
    Spectacular Member scourge's Avatar
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    If it really was an attempt to soft reboot Young Avengers it wasn't just a wasted opportunity it was a dumb as hell idea.

    "Let's try to cash in on fan love for two different series but give them nothing of what they liked from either! It'll be brilliant!" is something that should get people fired for stupidity.

  15. #15

    Default

    Picked it on a whim mostly just because I saw Clint on the cover, it was alright and had its moments, but it kinda just felt like the Kate Bishop show with everyone else just there to fill space, except Gwenpool who was there for a weird romance subplot. It was my first introduction to Fuse and I already dislike him, and the vampire arc at the end did the book no favours. Really wasn’t looking forwards to buying it by the end.

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