Guardians of the Galaxy #1

[PhoenixThanos]

While I'm super thankful because you're the only Moondragon fan that has even attempted to answer my question haha, you're giving me, like, single puzzle pieces for the entire puzzle I've tried searching for info on the character, but everywhere stops mentioning her after a point so there's not a lot out there (which is why I came here).

Okay, so I missed a resurrection then (because I wasn't reading when Bendis wrote GotG). She was killed in Dragon form and brought back. She was last seen alive in Bendis' GotG as part of the Knowhere Corps. Almost ZERO appearances in approximately SIX years prior (maybe this is why I assumed she was still dead... if she wasn't appearing anywhere for over half a decade, it's natural to assume a character might be dead lol).

AFTER that, nothing was done with the character basically until Gamora in Infinity Wars says that she's dead? So she makes a minor appearance in GotG in 2016 and then a few years later she's declared dead?

Okay, NOW I see why you said they must have killed her off panel.

BUT...

If this Moondragon that's appearing now, is a different alternative universe Moondragon, how come she's calling Drax dad and saying things like "I never thought I'd see you again"? And knows about Thanos and Gamora? And seems to know everyone she comes across?

Or if she's not an alternative universe Moondragon, how the hell did she end up in an alternate universe with a different Phyla?

I can't be the only one confused, right?

Just shoddy writing or maybe a plot point coming up?

I was of the opinion that this Moon Dragon and Phyla were from an alternate universe, I'm sure that I read it somewhere.

[Rosebunse]

I think Moondragon's universe was just similar enough to 616 for her to be familiar with our versions.

[Merrik]

The beginning of my last reply reads as really rude Apologies ETMike1988, I read it back and realized exactly how it sounds. Sincere apologies for being rude. I'm actually quite grateful that you took a moment to try and help me out!

So the consensus seems to be that it's an alternate reality/universe Moondragon then hey? So Earth-616 Moondragon, as ETMike1988 said before, might've just been killed off panel? That's... crappy lol.

It STILL reads as a bit weird to me... I mean, everyone, including Drax, her father, is just treating this Moondragon like she was the original Earth-616 Moondragon (like, no on in Infinity Wars or GotG even mentioned a peep except Phyla who mentioned coming to this universe) and that's a little creepy honestly lol. If she's not the same person, she shouldn't be treated as such.

Anyway... I'll just go along for the ride and see if it ever gets brought up or pointed out or is a point in a story line or something. Glad to have any version of Phyla back I guess! Have been kinda bitter about her death since it happened.

[Haquim]

A seperate 'can someone help me out?'.

Many posts in this tread seem to suggest Cosmic Ghost Rider is from an alternative universe. That was not the original idea that Cates put forward. He very clearly expressed that his character was in continuity and always a part of the prime universe.

Has anything contradicted this? I haven't read much cosmic stuff recently apart from the frankly convuluted Infinty Wars stuff. Which itself seems to become a little unclear about the Prime Universe. Especially where Loki is concerned.

Cosmic Ghost rider is Frank Castle from the future ("Thanos wins"). From a future that was PREVENTED from happening by Thanos being killed by Gamora actually. This is clear by the end of "Thanos wins" when the Mad Titan's older self disappears. Cosmic Ghost rider was killed during the aforementioned storyline BUT Odin brought him to Valhalla. Frank Castle wasn't happy there and Odin decided to get rid of him placing him into the current temporal line. So technically yes, he is from the 616, but he comes from a future timeline that was stopped from happening.

[Triniking1234]

So Cosmic Ghost Rider's situation is similar to Rachel Summers'?

[JKtheMac]

Cosmic Ghost rider is Frank Castle from the future ("Thanos wins"). From a future that was PREVENTED from happening by Thanos being killed by Gamora actually. This is clear by the end of "Thanos wins" when the Mad Titan's older self disappears. Cosmic Ghost rider was killed during the aforementioned storyline BUT Odin brought him to Valhalla. Frank Castle wasn't happy there and Odin decided to get rid of him placing him into the current temporal line. So technically yes, he is from the 616, but he comes from a future timeline that was stopped from happening.

Pretty sure Thanos won't be dead forever, especially given this issue here, so we can't say that future was prevented.

[JKtheMac]

The beginning of my last reply reads as really rude Apologies ETMike1988, I read it back and realized exactly how it sounds. Sincere apologies for being rude. I'm actually quite grateful that you took a moment to try and help me out!

So the consensus seems to be that it's an alternate reality/universe Moondragon then hey? So Earth-616 Moondragon, as ETMike1988 said before, might've just been killed off panel? That's... crappy lol.

It STILL reads as a bit weird to me... I mean, everyone, including Drax, her father, is just treating this Moondragon like she was the original Earth-616 Moondragon (like, no on in Infinity Wars or GotG even mentioned a peep except Phyla who mentioned coming to this universe) and that's a little creepy honestly lol. If she's not the same person, she shouldn't be treated as such.

Anyway... I'll just go along for the ride and see if it ever gets brought up or pointed out or is a point in a story line or something. Glad to have any version of Phyla back I guess! Have been kinda bitter about her death since it happened.

It is referenced right here in this issue: "I wanted to kill that lunatic the first chance I had when Moondragon and I arrived in this insane universe!" says Phyla.

Also in Infinity Wars #3 Gamora explains that they are both dead in the Prime Universe. They are also in the "next universe along" which implies most of their story will be similar. Indeed a similar but subtly different Infinity Wars was going on. One in which their universe gets destroyed.

[Haquim]

Pretty sure Thanos won't be dead forever, especially given this issue here, so we can't say that future was prevented.

That's how things stand now. The morale of that particular story arc is that "our" Thanos became disgusted with what would have happened to him in the far future and he was glad it was prevented.
"Our Thanos" left that temporal line with the stated goal of preventing it from becoming his future. In the epilogue of that tale, Death explains to Thanos' older self who's suddenly dying that his younger self did exactly what he said he would do... "He won", which means he was killed by Gamora and his future self was stopped from becoming real in the future. I believe this was referenced somewhere criticizing the arc because this outcome implied Thanos allowed Gamora to kill him, which robbed Gamora of her big moment.

Eventually Thanos will be around again, we all know that, but "Thanos Wins" implies he will be a different Thanos, with no set future in front of him.

[JKtheMac]

That's how things stand now. The morale of that particular story arc is that "our" Thanos became disgusted with what would have happened to him in the far future and he was glad it was prevented.
"Our Thanos" left that temporal line with the stated goal of preventing it from becoming his future. In the epilogue of that tale, Death explains to Thanos' older self who's suddenly dying that his younger self did exactly what he said he would do... "He won", which means he was killed by Gamora and his future self was stopped from becoming real in the future. I believe this was referenced somewhere criticizing the arc because this outcome implied Thanos allowed Gamora to kill him, which robbed Gamora of her big moment.

Eventually Thanos will be around again, we all know that, but "Thanos Wins" implies he will be a different Thanos, with no set future in front of him.

The thing is, none of this suggests an destroyed timeline, just a potentially unstable one. All it implies is that stuff is convoluted and involves long stretches of time.

Thanos legacy covers some of this ground too BTW. That Thanos knows what will happen with Gamora and that it is the answer to the question "What did Thanos do to erase his future?"

Except I think this is a fake out. Thanos is manipulating his own death to specifically lead to his resurrection, or indeed maybe even a double resurrection. So again he may have just changed his long term fate, but he hasn't necessarily divorced CGR from his reality.

[Haquim]

The thing is, none of this suggests an destroyed timeline, just a potentially unstable one. All it implies is that stuff is convoluted and involves long stretches of time.

Thanos legacy covers some of this ground too BTW. That Thanos knows what will happen with Gamora and that it is the answer to the question "What did Thanos do to erase his future?"

Except I think this is a fake out. Thanos is manipulating his own death to specifically lead to his resurrection, or indeed maybe even a double resurrection. So again he may have just changed his long term fate, but he hasn't necessarily divorced CGR from his reality.

Ok, you asked a question and I answered at the best of my abilities. "Thanos wins" makes pretty clear Thanos "older self" dies because of the actions of his "younger self" in the main timeline (he allows Gamora to kill him). That's what Cates' tale says. It does not mean some other author or even Cates himself may change things in the future and revisit that specific dystropian timeline, it's just how things stand right now.

[Colt Cape]

A seperate 'can someone help me out?'.

Many posts in this tread seem to suggest Cosmic Ghost Rider is from an alternative universe. That was not the original idea that Cates put forward. He very clearly expressed that his character was in continuity and always a part of the prime universe.

Has anything contradicted this? I haven't read much cosmic stuff recently apart from the frankly convuluted Infinty Wars stuff. Which itself seems to become a little unclear about the Prime Universe. Especially where Loki is concerned.

CGR is in a situation similar to Rachel Summers or Miguel O'Hara.

I highly doubt any of those characters are dead.

One thing I'm curious about is thay if invites were sent out, how did Eros know to send on to Frank? Clearly he's still unknown in 616, even to the Surfer.

The Rider and Eros met in Thanos Legacy.

[JKtheMac]

CGR is in a situation similar to Rachel Summers or Miguel O'Hara.

I am not convinced he is.

[JKtheMac]

Ok, you asked a question and I answered at the best of my abilities. "Thanos wins" makes pretty clear Thanos "older self" dies because of the actions of his "younger self" in the main timeline (he allows Gamora to kill him). That's what Cates' tale says. It does not mean some other author or even Cates himself may change things in the future and revisit that specific dystropian timeline, it's just how things stand right now.

No I think you are missing my point. I was asking if I had missed something that proved he as an alt character. Yes you have provided a theory, but actually I already knew all of that and I don't see how that makes him an alt character. Exactly the same accusation was levelled at Old King Thor, "he's from the future" the same is levelled at Wolverine/Phoenix. As if at some point in the future they will erase the deep future as if it was the same as Days of Future Past. That seems to me to be confusing alternative future stories with 'the end of time' type stories. They don't have the same genre tropes.

Either way I am not ungrateful for your answer, I am just unconvinced by the theory. At some point in the Prime Universe it seems to me this current story will be smoothed out, just because these future characters are all intertwined.

[Digifiend]

CGR is in a situation similar to Rachel Summers or Miguel O'Hara.

How is his situation like Spider-Man 2099's? Miguel's future hasn't been prevented... in fact, Alchemax exists in 616 now. It's run by Liz Allan and is responsible for creating Honey Badger and Anti-Venom.

[Rosebunse]

So...yeah, just gonna go with my own headcanon when it comes to CGR. It's easier that way. Though the fun part here is that most of these characters wouldn't know who Frank Castle was even if tme told them.