Should DC just sell WildStorm to another company?

[James Cameron]

A. No, I don't.
B. It's still a change that came totally out of the blue, completely counter to everything previously established about the character.

Trust me it's gonna be you next

[Midnight_v]

I think there is a difference between a change that comes out of nowhere and a character's personal development. I have read stories in GQ, Details, and Cosmo about men and women who are very advanced in life (the guy in Details was 86) who talk about that very thing. If you have encountered such a thing among your friendset then you could easily learn more about it in men's or women's magazines (I don't know if all of them are fashion magazines per se but the ones I saw had lots of clothes and these fragrance inserts).

There are articles about people revealing their struggles at advanced ages and there are many current discussions in the present. Granted I don't know all of the terminology but I do know just because you enter a person's life at point A on the timeline doesn't mean they will be that same thing at point B ion the timeline.

That isn't something that we can call a retcon because people can naturally progress to different things from when they were young. If you were given life by Gods after your mom sculpted you from clay or marble, you can't go back in time and be grown in a lab; THAT is a retcon. A person feeling they were bi or whatever the other states are and who discovers they are hetero or gay or not really interested in anything is simply growing.

People consider it a ret con because he was established a certain way. There was nary a word spoke about tim for a while since damien and then *poof* he's *bi* and so in comics... we say retcon.
No ones typing out "revelation" but especially not it cases like this, not when they read bobby's thought bubble for 60 years or however long. We're kinda on a sticking point though.
cause most of this is irrelevant.

The midnighter was more badass than funny and dc just made him ... zany? He's more an unfunny deadpool at dc than anything imho.

Dc doesn't want the competition so they're not selling this stuff. Its just another shelved property that got bought up then lost to time, hundreds of cool shows like that out there. I agree with the post that chalked it up
to capitalism.

Trust me it's gonna be you next

Thats MAD weird fam.
Chill.

[James Cameron]

People consider it a ret con because he was established a certain way. There was nary a word spoke about tim for a while since damien and then *poof* he's *bi* and so in comics... we say retcon.
No ones typing out "revelation" but especially not it cases like this, not when they read bobby's thought bubble for 60 years or however long. We're kinda on a sticking point though.
cause most of this is irrelevant.

The midnighter was more badass than funny and dc just made him ... zany? He's more an unfunny deadpool at dc than anything imho.

Dc doesn't want the competition so they're not selling this stuff. Its just another shelved property that got bought up then lost to time, hundreds of cool shows like that out there. I agree with the post that chalked it up
to capitalism.


Thats MAD weird fam.
Chill.

We're all getting retconned! Oh no!

[Stanlos]

People consider it a ret con because he was established a certain way. There was nary a word spoke about tim for a while since damien and then *poof* he's *bi* and so in comics... we say retcon.
No ones typing out "revelation" but especially not it cases like this, not when they read bobby's thought bubble for 60 years or however long. We're kinda on a sticking point though.
cause most of this is irrelevant.

The midnighter was more badass than funny and dc just made him ... zany? He's more an unfunny deadpool at dc than anything imho.

Dc doesn't want the competition so they're not selling this stuff. Its just another shelved property that got bought up then lost to time, hundreds of cool shows like that out there. I agree with the post that chalked it up
to capitalism.


Thats MAD weird fam.
Chill.

I am aware that the character was "established a certain way" at the time the reader is visiting them. That would be akin to point A in the timeline. There literally is nothing that would preclude the possibility that when the reader looks in again on the character at point B or whatever (A+time) the character could be in an entirely different place in terms of things like emotional state, personal philosophies, sexual orientation, or other fluid elements of human identity that grow, develop, or change as an individual gains more knowledge of self.

The character IS a human, right?

[Dataweaver]

I am aware that the character was "established a certain way" at the time the reader is visiting them. That would be akin to point A in the timeline. There literally is nothing that would preclude the possibility that when the reader looks in again on the character at point B or whatever (A+time) the character could be in an entirely different place in terms of things like emotional state, personal philosophies, sexual orientation, or other fluid elements of human identity that grow, develop, or change as an individual gains more knowledge of self.

The character IS a human, right?

The thing is, there is no “look in at point A, them look in again at point B”. We got a consideration stream of stories all the way from Tim's origin to the end of Red Robin. There were no significant stretches of time where stuff happened in his life that the readers weren't aware of. So no, the character can't suddenly be in an entirely different place in terms of things like emotional state, personal philosophies, sexual orientation, or other fluid elements of human identity that gradually grow, develop, or change as an individual gains more knowledge of self.

Specifically, the issue is the lack of gradual development. There was no build-up prior to the Batman: Urban Legends story to indicate anything even resembling a reevaluation of his sexuality. None. A new writer came in and wanted him to be bi, and suddenly he was bi. No growing or developing; just an abrupt change.

Now, I'll grant that there was one discontinuity in his experiences; and if you want, you could use it to explain Tim being in a different place in all sorts of ways after that discontinuity than where he was before it. But that discontinuity is pretty much the opposite of natural, human growth. I'm referring to what happened to Tim across the Flashpoint, leading into the New 52. He went in as this:

And came out as this:

[Stanlos]

Anytime in the past as compared to when whatever growth is being responded to is point A. The pister was saying the character was "Established as" a thing the last s/he looked and that thing was different ftmrom bi or gay or whatever the poster is being challenged when s/he recently looked in on the character.

As for whether or not it is gradual,I think that too is realistic. Depending on the individual's story and experience, their actions may seem to communicate one thing to an outsider which may or may not be exactly what was going on internally. I just saw something on Amazon called Ex On The Beach where apparently the Reillich guy who used to garden for Ellen DeGenerous show is seemingly going through exactly such a thing and it was very chaotic.

I think with people things can vary a great deal based on a multitude of factors. If you have I would recommend that Ex On Beach 3 just to gain understanding. It was pretty eye opening about people in general assuming that is that it was indeed 'real'

[Stanlos]

I think I was like the poster and the data guy when it came to Wonder Woman being vegetarian. I remember being all unsettled aboush and bringing up all the instances we had seen her eat meat in the past.

Then I realized, that her other experiences since then may have fostered a change of heart. When I sampled friends and public sources from library (yes, these still exist and yes, there are those who enjoy the tactile experience of researching the old fashioned way), I was able to hear the stories of others who had foregone meat in varying degrees and for a multitude of reasons, none of which invalidated what I knew of the WW character or my previous hot wings inhaling friends in past times. So WW being a vegetarian is not a retcon--it was a new development in her character.