T'Challa vs Lady Shiva

[MichaelC]

No weapons or armor. They fight in comfortable mundane clothing.

[Pendaran]

Depends how seriously you take that almost casual Batman win she scored in the Nu/Rebirth era.

[Godzilla2099]

Shiva should take this fight easily

Shiva is considered to be the best martial artist by many masters, unarmed combat is her specialty, and she's faster

Here's Shiva taking out GCPD with weapons drawn at her in seconds. One of them fires a bullet at her but she dodges it:

[Beadle]

Shiva should take this fight easily

Shiva is considered the best at hand to hand combat my many fighters, Unarmed combat is her specialty, and she's faster

Here's Shiva taking out GCPD with weapons drawn at her in seconds. One of them fires a bullet at her but she dodges it:

Standard GCPD Officers?

That just mean she’s basically ‘any vaguely competent comics fighter’.

The Batman fight, if consistent, is much more of a telling thing.

[Pendaran]

The Batman fight, if consistent, is much more of a telling thing.

She took him out in basically a move and stated all her previous losses were her intentionally taking a loss. If you take that seriously then... yeah. She wrecks here.

If you don't, different story.

[Beadle]

She took him out in basically a move and stated all her previous losses were her intentionally taking a loss. If you take that seriously then... yeah. She wrecks here.

If you don't, different story.

Oh, well... umm... **** knows then. She’s almost un-Rumbleable if that’s where we’re at with her.

[MichaelC]

Black Panther isn't exactly hurting for feats these days.

[Beadle]

Black Panther isn't exactly hurting for feats these days.

So, while directly engaging in a fight with Punisher, he simultaneously, nonchalantly, also engages two uber-skilled, armed, card-carrying bullet-timers.

Seems legit.

[Pendaran]

In the same comic, he managed to bloody Tombstone with a single punch, the guy who can otherwise get punched up by Spiderman to no such effect and survive a helicopter rotor blade to the face. By comparison at least Shiva offered "I was previously intentionally taking a dive" as far as taking what she did seriously by comparison.

In that comic there was nothing but "Are Y'all Ready For Some Jobbing!"

*Monday Night Football Voice*

[hareluyafan1]

Depends how seriously you take that almost casual Batman win she scored in the Nu/Rebirth era.

Seems perfectly legitimate to me.

Batman is supposed to be the world's greatest detective first and foremost. This means that there ought to be plenty of superior fighters to him since most of his time would be spent on research and investigation, leaving him less time to train and hone his skills. Someone like Shiva (who eats, sleeps and breathes combat) should logically be better than him.

Sure, Batman ought to be really good at combat but he shouldn't be the "best of the best." That's detrimental to his character. He is meant to be detective first and everything else second, someone who's greatest asset is his brain, not his fists.

[Pendaran]

I'm talking about in reference to Batman's actual performances and those of Shiva, and how much "I was previously just faking" works as a justification for the sheer ease he was dismantled by, not in reference to how you want Batman to be written.

[hareluyafan1]

I'm talking about in reference to Batman's actual performances and those of Shiva, and how much "I was previously just faking" works as a justification for the sheer ease he was dismantled by, not in reference to how you want Batman to be written.

You have to admit what I said makes sense though.

Anyway, as I said it works great as a justification for me.

[Beadle]

You have to admit what I said makes sense though.

Anyway, as I said it works great as a justification for me.

But not by board rules, which work on the basis of high-end feats for the respective characters that are consistent with their overall presentation.

On that basis, Batman beats nu-Shiva comfortably.

On the basis of “well, it kinda sorta feels like there should be someone better than Batman so it might as well be Shiva”, then sure, your way works. But those aren’t board rules so don’t count for Rumbles.

[Pendaran]

On that basis, Batman beats nu-Shiva comfortably.

Again though, if all her previous showings just got retconned... no, no he does not.

[Beadle]

Again though, if all her previous showings just got retconned... no, no he does not.

Yeah, but... seriously?! Are we not just going to call bullshit on that as PIS or mild SMvFL or something? I mean, unless she starts consistently treating Bruce like her punching bag.