The Master of Kung Fu - Shang Chi Appreciation 2019

[Ascended]

Hmmm, perhaps Shang's father will be replaced by the Mandarin? As some of you may have heard, Kevin Feige mentioned something interesting during an interview on Reddit. The article comes from here https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05...ang-chi-movie/:

So we know the Mandarin is coming back. And some fans have speculated (just speculated) that the Mandarin will be revealed as Shang-Chi's father. Now we've talked about this before and stated how there should be a difference between the Mandarin and Zheng Zu. Hell, I was one of those that said there should be a difference. The more I think about it though, hey, it could work. I think it could work mainly because the changes are superficial. I'm willing to bet he'll still be a long lived, nigh immortal Chinese bad guy who has been craftily manipulating events behind the scenes. The character will still be Zheng Zu, just packing the ten rings and called "The Mandarin." I'm honestly hoping that he becomes one of the main bad guys in the MCU moving forward.

In terms of comics, I think it's pretty easy for Zheng Zu to become the new Mandarin. The old Mandarin is dead, right? So Zheng Zu just finds the old Mandarin's rings, becomes the new Mandarin, and continues to want to take over the world. Easy.

Again, this is all speculation. Who knows, the Mandarin and the Ten Rings could become the latest bad guy in the Winter Soldier/Falcon series? So, as usual just playing with potential ideas here.

However they play the Mandarin, I'm glad they're not dropping the plot point. I really enjoyed the All Hail the King short film and I think there's a lot of mileage left in the Ten Rings concept.

But I do find it a little interesting that this is coming up now, with talk of Shang Chi starting up. Will they roll the two characters into one? Make "Mandarin" one alias among many for a Soze-style Zheng? Are these two completely unrelated plot points and narratives? I don't know. I mean, the MCU could easily say that Zheng is the mastermind behind the Ten Rings......or the Mandarin could be a villain in Widow's solo film......or it could be tied to a film we haven't heard anything about yet.

Hell Mandarin might end up on one of the Disney+ shows, and not a movie at all.

But I still think there's potential in playing up Zheng by making him the leader of multiple criminal empires, none of which realize they all work for the same guy.

[PCN24454]

Am I the only one that thinks it would have made more sense for Shang Chi to be leading the Agents of Atlas in War of Realms instead of Brawn? I mean yes Amadeus Cho is intelligent but Shang is more experienced and generally less disruptive. Given that a good chunk of the characters promoted on this team seem to be between their late 20's to early 40's does it really make sense to have a kid leading them regardless of how intelligent he may or may not be?

What was Agent Woo, the most experienced leader amongst them, doing at the time?

[MichaelC]

I think if you had Mandarin and Fu Manchu in the same story, you could write it a lot like how Bane and the Joker are written in Arkham Origins. Bane is written as being Joker's equal or near equal intellectually, but he's too brutish to be a real chessmaster. He's Joker's henchman, even if he would kill you if you called him that. Despite his intelligence, at his core he's a savage who wants to hit things too much be the real leader. The Mandarin is a lot like that. He wants to smash things with his chi-amped karate-chops a bit too much to be one of those calm chessmaster types, at least consistently. Fu Manchu's vastly greater patience would really contrast with him.

So I think if you were going to bring Mandarin into a Shang Chi story, it should be as Fu Manchu's ambitious dragon. He's smart, he's strong, and he thinks of Fu as an impotent nerd he will surely knock off the throne one day, but he's ultimately too much of an impatient savage to be the man behind the man.

[Factor]

What are some good Shang-Chi runs?

[DragonsChi]

Master of Kung Fu was the only real "run" he had. He's mostly only made random appearances in other peoples title, a few one-shots, and couple of mini's.

The most notable recent appearance was in Hickman's Avengers run.

But I would start with Master of Kung Fu. There were quite a few under appreciated stories in that run.

[Tien Long]

You can't replace The Mandarin with Fu Manchu simply by giving Fu the rings. The Mandarin has a distinctly different, far more hypermasculine personality. Quite simply, the Mandarin is a smart savage, where Fu Manchu is a true intellectual in terms of personality. It would be like trying to replace Gorilla Grodd with the Riddler just by giving Riddler Grodd's telepathic abilities.

A fair point. It reminds me a lot of what we talked about before, when does a character no longer become a character? In this case, when does the Mandarin stop being the Mandarin? For me, I wouldn't mind Zheng Zu taking the Mandarin name and still being crafty, behind the scenes Zheng Zu. Indeed, it's already been done in a way, back during the Master of Kung Fu series on Battleworld where Shang's father was a master of the Ten Rings. Zheng Zu and the Mandarin mythos seemed to fit well there.

Also, the Mandarin has mystic chi abilities apart from his rings. He basically uses chi the way Bane uses venom, amping himself to the point where he can take Iron Man's punches and destroy his armor with karate-chops. Giving Fu the rings does not give Fu the chi powers.

Interesting. Chi hits to armor, are you referring to Temugin, who was the Mandarin's son and took over the role for a while?

Yes, and characters like Cap, T'Challa and Bucky got away with it by being superpowered. Hell Cap is borderline OP in the films, since he can kick armoured trucks, pull down helicopters and fight a guy that wiped the floor with the Hulk (to be fair he did use Mjolnir, but still). Same with Bucky who is on Cap's level and T'Challa that can wrestle down abnormally huge charging rhinos and can throw truck doors like soda cans.

Shang Chi can hang with those guys in the comics because they're even more inconsistent than movies (strength and speed is a lot easier to visualise on film too) and weird chi stuff but he should only be able to pull of what those guys do if he's got some serious powers going for him. And as someone mentioned Shang Chi is primarly a martial artist far more than those guys--they "use" it but he is it. Cap is a supersoldier, Bucky a super assassin and T'Challa a spiritual warrior king. Shang is a 'regular' guy.

Indeed, Shang Chi isn't Shang Chi without the Kung Fu. That has to be shown as it's integral to the character. Of course, it has to be balanced with real characterization and personality. Otherwise, I can just picture a lot of Asians and Asian-Americans rolling their eyes and saying "Yeah, just another Bruce Lee knock off. That's what Marvel thinks we are, right? Why didn't they use Amadeus Cho or Kamala Khan?" Again, to avoid that Marvel has to ensure that Shang is a fully-fleshed out character.

The whole thing is just that kung fu as a whole is controversial today in terms of actual combat prowess compared to modern styles of fighting, and it's relevance and usefulness has been called into question for a whole bunch of reasons (some good and some bad). I just think should modernise his style a bit. Don't make it so chopsocky and unrealistic. I'd like a bit of that flare of course and I wouldn't want the action scenes to be hyper-realistic, but I don't see why he has to be restricted to just kung fu. Thrown in some Jeet Kune Do (Jun Fan), Sanshou (Chinese kickboxing used by the military), Muay Thai, Capoeira, Taekwondo, Escrima and Krav Maga alongside the more traditional stuff like Wing Chun, Xing Yi Quan and Baguazhang.

Correct. Y'know, in some of my previous posts, I may have been very adamant about Shang knowing traditional Chinese martial arts. I still am. But I want to reiterate that I'm supportive of Shang knowing more kinds of martial arts and being eclectic in his fighting, mainly because that's what's been happening in China throughout the past several years. Popular MMA gyms are found in cities like Beijing, Hong Kong, and Shanghai. Taekwondo has been popular for decades. There were Capoeira, Escrima, Judo, and Escrima groups and schools in Hong Kong last I was there. So, in modern day China, one can find a ton of non-Chinese martial arts. Shang being familiar in these arts isn't just being open, but also a necessity.

I also think it'll help if they establish him more as a spy/James Bond type that uses some tech gear like the taser nunchucks and anything else they could come up with, similarly to Black Widow for instance.

Agreed. I suggested this before, but it would be cool if he had a Stark Tech type of device that could transform into any Chinese martial arts weapon.

What was Agent Woo, the most experienced leader amongst them, doing at the time?

Unfortunately, Agent Woo was injured in a plane crash while the Agents of Atlas were flying over Seoul. Jimmy gave leadership over to Amadeus.

Master of Kung Fu was the only real "run" he had. He's mostly only made random appearances in other peoples title, a few one-shots, and couple of mini's.

The most notable recent appearance was in Hickman's Avengers run.

But I would start with Master of Kung Fu. There were quite a few under appreciated stories in that run.

Yep. All of those issue are on Comixology right now along with some collected editions. I'm actually pretty surprised how Shang doesn't feel like the main character in his series, since his supporting cast do most of the talking. Shang is depicted as being very laconic. Still, when he speaks, it's something pretty profound and edges towards badass .

[MichaelC]

A fair point. It reminds me a lot of what we talked about before, when does a character no longer become a character? In this case, when does the Mandarin stop being the Mandarin? For me, I wouldn't mind Zheng Zu taking the Mandarin name and still being crafty, behind the scenes Zheng Zu. Indeed, it's already been done in a way, back during the Master of Kung Fu series on Battleworld where Shang's father was a master of the Ten Rings. Zheng Zu and the Mandarin mythos seemed to fit well there.

Yes, it was an interesting hybrid, though the result was much more Mandarin than Fu Manchu.

Interesting. Chi hits to armor, are you referring to Temugin, who was the Mandarin's son and took over the role for a while?

No, I'm refering to classic Mandarin, who had the same ability decades before his son.

[Draegwolf]

What was Agent Woo, the most experienced leader amongst them, doing at the time?

Getting knocked unconscious and putting Brawn in charge. Though honestly I see him more as a handler than a leader.

[Tien Long]

Yes, it was an interesting hybrid, though the result was much more Mandarin than Fu Manchu.




No, I'm refering to classic Mandarin, who had the same ability decades before his son.

Understood bro. Thanks for the heads up.

Also wanted to say check out Agents of Atlas#2 today. Shang had a very cool moment in the series which, I'll be honest, nearly brought me to tears .

[Tien Long]

Anyone hear Alex Landi? Turns out he'd like to be the next Shang-Chi.



From Newsarama:

Alex Landi says it "would be dope" to play Shang-Chi in Marvel Studios' upcoming solo film. The actor, who plays Dr. Nico Kim, has thrown his hat into the ring for that highly-prized role - or any role, for that matter, in a Shang-Chi film.

"The first Asian superhero for Marvel, that would be dope," Landi told HuffPost. "That’s my dream role right there. Any role in that movie, I think, would be great."

The pro tennis player-turned actor has a background in martial arts, according to HuffPost.

Marvel Studios has reportedly hired Destin Daniel Cretton to direct the as-yet-unscheduled Shang-Chi film.

Could work, though I feel that his face is a little too long. Maybe if he'd bulk up a bit, we'd be in business.

[Silvermoth]

I can dig it. He’s an interesting guy and very good looking

[saiyan_earthling]

Give him a lot of training, and source material, and I think he's got a chance.

[baltiroo]

Anyone hear Alex Landi? Turns out he'd like to be the next Shang-Chi.



From Newsarama:



Could work, though I feel that his face is a little too long. Maybe if he'd bulk up a bit, we'd be in business.

I don't think he'd be a good choice for Shang Chi at all. His acting is quite questionable at best and I think Marvel will want to go with a more established name for the title role.

[Blind Wedjat]

I was gonna say I don't see it based on that one pic, but then I went to his IG...

Not only is he very good looking, he's young , and he actually has both muscle building and martial arts training already. He trained in China for 3 months just doing MA and he's actually be campaigning for this role for weeks.

Big question is how well can he act? I think he's new to Grey's Anatomy. But he looks the part definitely. For me it's between him



Mike Moh(Once Upon a Time in Hollywood)



and Jason Tobin



I think Mike has the most training out of all them (and looks really young for a 35 year old). Jason is 36, part Chinese part British actually (so damn accurate lol) and I think he can speak both a Chinese dialect and English. Alex is the youngest.

They're all undiscovered so that's part of Marvel's thing.

[Blind Wedjat]

Apparently this is a scoop on some Shang Chi casting

https://screenrant.com/shang-chi-fil...acter-details/

The GWW revealed details on two characters who are being cast for Marvel's Australian production, which is now reportedly Shang-Chi. Marvel is looking to cast an Asian male between 40-60 years old to play a "wise, old statesman,” who is “the leader of his people," and an Asian actress in her 30s or 40s to play “one of the leader’s most skilled warriors.”