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  1. #376
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Yea I saw the video yesterday and Simu's response as well. I looked up a few reactions to it on Reddit and my takeaway is that really, it was only one woman out of the four interviewees that said Simu was ugly and she was disappointed. The others seemed to understand that beauty standards differ from East to West (which really shouldn't excuse hate and belittlement because beauty standards are toxic, but I digress). And to be fair, a lot of the articles I've seen reporting this stuff only use like three examples of netizens on Weibo outright calling Simu (or Awkwafina) ugly. So I think as it is now, it's really just a few trolls of the vocal minority that are representing this whole thing (as it is in most cases of online hate). Perhaps everyone gave it too much attention, and I didn't even want Simu Liu to address it at a point (but I'm glad he did as classy as he is).

    For comparison's sake, Brie Larson allegedly received the exact same treatment but that didn't stop Captain Marvel from succeeding over there. Granted, Larson isn't a Chinese actress playing a Chinese character, but I think things will turn around when the release nears.

    Also Tien Long, there a part of your quote missing which is pretty important (no worries, some places aren't showing the full thing Simu said):




    The last bit is what I'm referring to, and even though it's been reported already that the director and writer aimed to remove all the negative stereotypes from the comics, the fact that Simu is very much aware of it AND wants to discuss it says to me that they've definitely addressed it and are clearly taking more inspiration from the modern comics. And I agree that is what Asian Boss should have made a video about (instead of baiting people to call someone ugly). He also talked about it on Instagram Live and here's a brief clip:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/scttlng/s...85975911010304

    Edit: My bad, these are actually two different posts by Simu. The one I posted is a response in a Facebook group.
    Last edited by Blind Wedjat; 08-11-2019 at 09:05 AM.

  2. #377
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    The last bit is what I'm referring to, and even though it's been reported already that the director and writer aimed to remove all the negative stereotypes from the comics, the fact that Simu is very much aware of it AND wants to discuss it says to me that they've definitely addressed it and are clearly taking more inspiration from the modern comics.
    Several of us here have been talking about that and saying that Marvel is too smart to fall for the stereotypes. Say what you will about the quality of their films (and some of it definitely should be questioned) but they're not that tone-deaf.

    Whether they're successful in "cleaning up" Shang is another matter, but the fact that they're aware of the problems and are trying to rectify them? Validation for those of us who were betting on Marvel Studios to (at least try to) do this thing right.
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  3. #378
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    I agree that they're not that tone deaf, and as I mentioned earlier, Marvel has cleaned up a lot of stuff that were problematic in the comics for the movies, like M'Baku and the Dora Milaje, Captain America using racial slurs, and Hank Pym not being abusive to Janet. Even though it backfired on them (because it wasn't so smart and a lose-lose situation), whitewashing the Ancient One was in response to the Mighty Whitey/White Saviour trope Doctor Strange comics had. Same with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

    How they do it (and how well) is definitely the bigger concern, but I have no doubt in my mind they'll do a good job. Simu Liu, Daniel Cretton and David Callaham all sound like the right ingredients to me.

  4. #379
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Yea I saw the video yesterday and Simu's response as well. I looked up a few reactions to it on Reddit and my takeaway is that really, it was only one woman out of the four interviewees that said Simu was ugly and she was disappointed. The others seemed to understand that beauty standards differ from East to West (which really shouldn't excuse hate and belittlement because beauty standards are toxic, but I digress). And to be fair, a lot of the articles I've seen reporting this stuff only use like three examples of netizens on Weibo outright calling Simu (or Awkwafina) ugly. So I think as it is now, it's really just a few trolls of the vocal minority that are representing this whole thing (as it is in most cases of online hate). Perhaps everyone gave it too much attention, and I didn't even want Simu Liu to address it at a point (but I'm glad he did as classy as he is).

    For comparison's sake, Brie Larson allegedly received the exact same treatment but that didn't stop Captain Marvel from succeeding over there. Granted, Larson isn't a Chinese actress playing a Chinese character, but I think things will turn around when the release nears.

    Also Tien Long, there a part of your quote missing which is pretty important (no worries, some places aren't showing the full thing Simu said):




    The last bit is what I'm referring to, and even though it's been reported already that the director and writer aimed to remove all the negative stereotypes from the comics, the fact that Simu is very much aware of it AND wants to discuss it says to me that they've definitely addressed it and are clearly taking more inspiration from the modern comics. And I agree that is what Asian Boss should have made a video about (instead of baiting people to call someone ugly). He also talked about it on Instagram Live and here's a brief clip:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/scttlng/s...85975911010304

    Edit: My bad, these are actually two different posts by Simu. The one I posted is a response in a Facebook group.
    Thanks for pointing that out. I heard about Simu asking about why Asian Boss didn't address the negative stereotypes of Shang-Chi. For me, well, I like Asian Boss. Their intentions are usually good and they definitely give perspectives on topics that are not well known outside of Asia. I'm thinking that they're holding out a year or so from now when the first trailer comes out and they have something more concrete to discuss. Then they'll delve into Yellow Peril/Orientalism stuff. Actually, I hope that Simu and Asian Boss can discuss more Shang-Chi stuff together in the future.
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  5. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I agree that they're not that tone deaf, and as I mentioned earlier, Marvel has cleaned up a lot of stuff that were problematic in the comics for the movies, like M'Baku and the Dora Milaje, Captain America using racial slurs, and Hank Pym not being abusive to Janet. Even though it backfired on them (because it wasn't so smart and a lose-lose situation), whitewashing the Ancient One was in response to the Mighty Whitey/White Saviour trope Doctor Strange comics had. Same with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

    How they do it (and how well) is definitely the bigger concern, but I have no doubt in my mind they'll do a good job. Simu Liu, Daniel Cretton and David Callaham all sound like the right ingredients to me.
    i don't get why they shaved Tilda Swinton's head for the part. was there supposed to be some religious significance to it? Chiwetel didn't shave his head. Mads didn't shave his head. it just came across as them trying to make Tilda "asian-y."
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  6. #381
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    I suspect it may have been a bit of foreshadowing that she was actually an anti-hero who had abused her powers for immortality. Bald generally means evil in these sorts of stories, after all.

  7. #382
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    I think it was to make her look androgynous but I agree that it wasn't handled well even though I like the character.

    Hearing a rumour Clive Reston might be in the film alongside Leiko Wu.

  8. #383

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    hmmm. so three different takes on her bald head, so far. i thought they were going for a kung fu the legend continues spirituality angle.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  9. #384

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    Did Shang get gifted a special weapon after War of the Realms? Just wondering. I know Daredevil got those clubs.

  10. #385

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    Did Shang get gifted a special weapon after War of the Realms? Just wondering. I know Daredevil got those clubs.
    Stark gave him some fancy repulsor-powered nunchukas prior to War of Realms. but i don't know about him getting any new weapons.
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 08-12-2019 at 08:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  11. #386
    Spectacular Member Bolo's Avatar
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    There are the full video from the instagram about the "uglygate";I find that really ridiculous to call him like that, yeah I understand the culture difference etc...but sorry to call Simu Liu ugly have no reality, at best they can say he is not the average pretty boys from Chinese movies post 2000's, also when I see these various reactions, I have strong doubt that most of the classic HK actors, specially the martial ones, would have done a career today.

    Now about the video, well, when he speak around 7min20 about the problem of "racism" from the 70's Shang Chi comics; to be honest I don't like how he point the comics, and say "this" like something dirty or very shameful, that something I have read a lot about Shang Chi, Mandarin, Fu Manchu etc... since the SDCC I'm little worried about Marvel reaction because of that; it's good to be sensitive, to adapt and to be careful about some issue, but not to the point to change completly the comics, I mean the original comics is still the best stuff about the characters, and represent something like 90% of Shang Chi appearances.

    And to change for what ? Make Mandarin/Fu Manchu a sympathic figure ? put him in tuxedo and not in the traditional chinese costume ? so the recent Warrior tv show is racist too ? All martial arts movies from HK are racist when they make an old master or a corrupted Manchu official ? I remember that John Carpenter have said that he have taken lot of complains from the chinese community about Big Trouble in little China because he have simply make a movie about his passion for hk movies.
    Last edited by Bolo; 08-12-2019 at 09:34 AM.

  12. #387

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    from my not-asian perspective, Carpenter was definitely telling a joke about asian stereotypes. the question is "were asians in on the joke or just the butt of it?" if it's the latter, it's, at the very least, culturally insensitive. in my head, i excuse Big Trouble In Little China because the hero of the film was Dennis Dunn's character. he didn't come across as a cheesy stereotype. he seemed as out of his depth with the mystical stuff as Jack Burton. but it's a really fine line.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  13. #388
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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  14. #389
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    Marvel Studios Looking To Cast Female Chinese-American Secret Agent For Upcoming Feature Film (EXCLUSIVE)

    https://discussingfilm.net/2019/08/1...ilm-exclusive/

  15. #390
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    With all the shit going on atm regarding Tarantino and Bruce Lee I hope the movie throws some refferences in to Bruce Lee in a positive manner

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