The Master of Kung Fu - Shang Chi Appreciation 2019

[mace11]

In the comics shang-chi's father and mother are bi-racial east asians.
The mother is american i think.

Check these out.
http://community.comicbookresources....ciation/page19
and
http://community.comicbookresources....ciation/page20

[mace11]

[MARVEL Future Fight] SHANG-CHI vs DAREDEVIL in Shadowland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH_JL5zCdj4

[mace11]

Updated info for shang chi.
Shang-Chi (Earth-616)

Powers and Abilities
Powers

Origin Bomb Reproduction: By successfully communing with the Origin Bomb site in Kobe, Japan, Shang-Chi turned the site to his advantage and replicated himself. Dozens of Shang-Chi copies spawned from the Origin Bomb site in Kobe, each with his mind and skills. It is unclear if a finite number of Shang-Chi duplicates have been produced, or if Shang-Chi can continue producing new copies on command.

Abilities

Master Martial Artist: Shang Chi is one of the greatest martial artists on Earth, having been trained possibly since birth to become the ultimate warrior. Shang Chi is skilled in various martial arts with a particular specialization in the Chinese martial arts. He has been shown defeating multiple highly skilled opponents simultaneously as well as super humans. His great strength and chi (qi) allows him to strike with inhuman force enabling him to break through barriers such as brick, concrete and iron, withstand physical impacts almost to a superhuman degree, and ease all forms of pain and discomfort. Shang has stalemated Iron Fist in single combat, with the two martial artists portrayed as equals while Black Panther stated Shang-Chi is better than Rand.

Peak Physical Conditioning: Shang has intensively trained his body to possess the highest level of strength, speed, stamina and endurance that a human can have without artificial enhancements. His notable include the speed and stamina to endure even the most rigorous physical training exercises, reacting fast enough to dodge gunfire and even catch weapons hurled by enemies at him and throw them right back at them.

Strength level
Shang-Chi possesses the strength level of a man his age, size and weight who engages in intensive regular exercise, Shang can lift at least twice his bodyweight, or 350 lbs. Through his use of chi however, Shang can temporarily increase his physical strength to an unknown amount.

Former Powers

Size Alteration: Shang-Chi temporarily used Pym Particles to grow to immense size or shrink to tiny proportions. The Particles would interact with the electrical impulses of his brain, creating an organism-wide "growth field" or "reducing field.

Open link below to read about shang chi's history and more about his powers and abilities.
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Shang-Chi_(Earth-616)
and
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Shang-Chi

[PCN24454]

so has Shang Chi encountered Mister Negative and his criminal gang yet? Just wondering.

The only time I know of is during the Shadowland event.

[Tien Long]

Hi all. A couple of thoughts:

A couple of important points. For this movie to be successful it must appeal to the Chinese audience. Shang Chi must be played by a Chinese martial artist. If you call some guy the Master of Kung Fu in a movie sold to the Chinese market he must be regarded as a true master. Only 3 guys in China are acknowledged as such, Donnie Yen, Jacky Wu Jing and Max Zhang. Wu Jing is the obvious choice. He has headlined the 2 biggest movies of all time in China and has worked with the Russo Bros. on Wolf Warrior 2.

So all this talk of making Shang Eurasian should be ignored. Co-creator Steve Englehart has already said that that was a decision by then Editor in Chief Roy Thomas and that he himself disagreed with. Thomas believed that the American audience would be unwilling to read about the exploits of a full-blooded Chinese hero.

As for having Shang be biracial, well, I'm comfortable both ways. As I said before, those who are half-Chinese, half-not Chinese (someone like me for instance) has had his fair share of issues. There have been a few (really, just a small amount, but memorable moments where those from mainland China have told me I'm not a real Chinese. As someone who grew up with a Chinese father (albeit one who himself was born outside of China), and was immersed in the Chinese culture, being told I wasn't hurt. So yeah, it would be nice to see a mixed Chinese up there on the screen, even one who's origin is rooted in prejudiced thinking. The potential for someone positive is still there.

Still, if Marvel chooses to go full on Chinese (and I mean born and raised in mainland China), then, okay, there are going to be those cultural differences that would seem a little odd to non-Chinese audiences. Selflessness for the group, making contributions to society, uniformity, don't speak out, those things might be present. Indeed, the crux of Shang-Chi's character, the father/son dynamic, may have to be altered. I was talking with one of my friends from China a couple of days ago and told her about Shang. She bristled a bit when I told her Shang fought against his father. She was surprised that a hero could be descended from a villain. She told me of reports of how a son killed his father in China a couple of months ago and how that made a lot of Chinese uncomfortable. I told her that Shang always felt that sense of shame and guilt that he had to fight his father, and that mitigated the situation somewhat. But there were still issues. Couldn't Zheng Zu be like an uncle rather than a father?

Now, I'm going to be meeting some other Chinese soon and ask their opinions. But yeah, kids being respectful and reverent to parents, that is a big thing in China. Maybe in Hong Kong and Singapore it could fly a bit better, but in mainland China....who knows?

[Tien Long]

So, had a little bit of a crisis when I read about this today:

After seeing Mike Moh’s astonishing turn as martial arts legend Bruce Lee in the first trailer for Quentin Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, some fans have greater aspirations trying to get Marvel Studios to cast him as the lead for the upcoming Shang-Chi film. Shang-Chi, a Chinese martial arts expert and master of kung-fu, is one of the most prolific warriors in Marvel comics using the power of chi to display his superhuman abilities. The film will reportedly expand on Marvel’s objective to be more show more diverse heroes given the success of Black Panther and Captain Marvel.

Shang-Chi will be the first Asian superhero to lead a film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe with Asian-American filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton taking on creative duties.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. star comic book megafan Patton Oswalt nominated Moh for the iconic hero, who has been seen in stints with The Heroes for Hire, The Avengers, and The Protectors in various comic runs

For those who haven't seen it yet, check out that "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" trailer and especially Mike Moh. Dude nails a perfect Bruce Lee impression.



Indeed, reading about Mike, he almost seems like a perfect candidate. He's got the martial arts experience, worked in Hong Kong, did that Street Fighter fan film a couple of years ago (that's how I found out about him. Great stuff!). I read that behind the scenes he's a really down to earth type of guy. That's exactly the kind of person that could play Shang.

But I do a little hand wringing. Because at the end of the day, Mike is not ethnically Chinese. He's Korean.

The Chinese side of me bristles when I found that out. I said it before, I'll say it again, Shang-Chi is of Chinese descent. Someone of Chinese descent should play him. There is an ethnic difference between Chinese and Koreans. Chinese should play a Chinese. Why can't Mike be Chinese? Now, the Asian-American in me knows that throughout Hollywood history, Asians have been playing other Asians for decades. And any Asian playing the role would elevate all Asians. And man, Mike fits that......But Mike is not Chinese. And that fact......that fact is hard to overlook with me.

It's hard. Don't want it to be a deal breaker for me.....but still....

[Ascended]

I want to ask a question but I know it might come off the wrong way. So let me say that no offense is meant, I'm just trying to understand your perspective and expand my own.

You're right that Asian-American actors have played characters of different ethnic backgrounds since Hollywood first became a thing. It happens with everyone; Welsh actors playing Americans, Irish playing Scots (we're not the same thing!), South Africans playing Egyptians, etc. Now, I totally understand the desire to have the first Chinese hero in the MCU played by someone who is actually Chinese. I want the same. Dont get me wrong. It *should* be a Chinese actor. I understand that this is a different animal than white actors/characters (who never lack for representation) but this "mix-n-match" seems to go across the board for all races; if an actor can "pull off the look" then Hollywood will roll with it.

So is it a bigger deal for a Chinese actor to play a Chinese character than a Scotsman playing a Brit or someone from Cuba playing someone from Italy or an Egyptian playing a South African? Different cultures, regions, ethnicity, etc. If it is different for the Chinese, why?

Like you say, this Mike dude could be perfect for Shang. Im not familiar with his work but I'm taking your word for it. So would it be the worst thing if he plays Shang? Assuming that the movie respects and celebrates and showcases China's deep and rich culture and history.....if the choice is this Korean dude or a Chinese actor who maybe isn't as good a fit, which way do you go? Again, not trying to be a d-bag, I'm just trying to understand. Morgan Freeman's ancestors apparently came from the Republic of Niger, which is quite far removed from South Africa, where Nelson Mandela was born, but that didn't seem to be a problem when Freeman took the role.

I appreciate your insight and input! Thanks!

[mace11]

In other media

In 2006, Shang-Chi was chosen as one of the many properties in Marvel Studios' new film deal with Paramount Pictures, along with Captain America, Nick Fury, Doctor Strange, Hawkeye, Power Pack, Black Panther and Cloak and Dagger

So it looks like they wanted to do a Shang chi film years ago but it did not work out at that time.

Still, if Marvel chooses to go full on Chinese (and I mean born and raised in mainland China), then, okay, there are going to be those cultural differences that would seem a little odd to non-Chinese audiences.

You mean he could still be bi-racial asian in the mcu but born in china only?
For the mcu they may make him and his parents unmixed east asians or one parent bi-racial and one unmixed east asian.
It's hard to say right now but i think they will make his parents unmixed east asians and him as well.
We will have to wait and see.

[mace11]

Is Shang-Chi in Spider-Man Far From Home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttExmgZjTY0

[mace11]

The info below is from last year.
Spider-Man: Far From Home Could Be Introducing New MCU Hero ...

As a writer is already attached to Shang-Chi, fans are already wondering who will direct the film and who Marvel will cast as the titular Master of Kung Fu. However, there's a chance that Shang-Chi has already been cast, and could make his MCU debut as early as next year. In August, Crazy Rich Asians star Remy Hii was cast in Spider-Man: Far From Home in an undisclosed role. So far, there's been no word on what character Hii will play in the film, with none of the film's many set photos providing clues.

It's worth noting that Hii underwent martial arts training for the role of Prince Jingim in the Netflix kung fu series, Marco Polo. As a result of that and his Malaysian Chinese descent, Hii has been an actor fans have been interested in seeing play Shang-Chi, long before the actor was expected to appear in Spider-Man: Far From Home.

To read more go here.
https://screenrant.com/spider-man-far-home-shang-chi/

[Tien Long]

I want to ask a question but I know it might come off the wrong way. So let me say that no offense is meant, I'm just trying to understand your perspective and expand my own.

You're right that Asian-American actors have played characters of different ethnic backgrounds since Hollywood first became a thing. It happens with everyone; Welsh actors playing Americans, Irish playing Scots (we're not the same thing!), South Africans playing Egyptians, etc. Now, I totally understand the desire to have the first Chinese hero in the MCU played by someone who is actually Chinese. I want the same. Dont get me wrong. It *should* be a Chinese actor. I understand that this is a different animal than white actors/characters (who never lack for representation) but this "mix-n-match" seems to go across the board for all races; if an actor can "pull off the look" then Hollywood will roll with it.

So is it a bigger deal for a Chinese actor to play a Chinese character than a Scotsman playing a Brit or someone from Cuba playing someone from Italy or an Egyptian playing a South African? Different cultures, regions, ethnicity, etc. If it is different for the Chinese, why?

Like you say, this Mike dude could be perfect for Shang. Im not familiar with his work but I'm taking your word for it. So would it be the worst thing if he plays Shang? Assuming that the movie respects and celebrates and showcases China's deep and rich culture and history.....if the choice is this Korean dude or a Chinese actor who maybe isn't as good a fit, which way do you go? Again, not trying to be a d-bag, I'm just trying to understand. Morgan Freeman's ancestors apparently came from the Republic of Niger, which is quite far removed from South Africa, where Nelson Mandela was born, but that didn't seem to be a problem when Freeman took the role.

I appreciate your insight and input! Thanks!

No problem bro. And no offense taken at all. Indeed, I'm glad that you took the time to ask this question because it caused me to question myself! I think you can expect a lot of dialogue in this response.

Now, the Chinese side will say this: in terms of a Chinese actor playing a Chinese character, I would say, yes, it is a big deal, moreso than those of European descent playing other European groups. There are strong ideas of identity among Asian groups. These identities find big differences among one another. The languages, cultural practices, sociopolitical orders, and especially histories of these groups are distinct. Mandarin Chinese sounds very different from Korean. How Chinese celebrate the Chinese New Year will be different than how Koreans celebrate their Lunar New Year. Korea never had a Han, Ming, or Qing dynasty. Going even further, some would say there are real physical differences. When I was a teacher in Hong Kong, I asked my students if Chinese had similarities with other Asian groups. Some felt there were major differences. Certain students felt that Japanese looked very different from Chinese. Some students definitely could not see how Chinese could be considered the same as the Filipinos, Malaysians, or Indonesians. So, yes, the cultures can be different. And those differences become amplified with the addition of nationality. Those people with their differences come from a different country. I definitely felt that when I was in Hong Kong. Japanese and Koreans didn't come from China, they came from a separate land. There was a little tinge of foreigner whenever I spoke with Koreans or Japanese. Top it all off that these nations have had wars with one another. Indeed, one student was completely against the idea of a Japanese actor playing the role of a famous Chinese character. She told me afterwards she got that attitude from her grandfather. It wouldn't be too hard for me to think that her grandfather had anti-Japanese sentiments because of WWII.

So yes, the Chinese side of me sees those differences. And it sees it with Mike.

Now, the Asian-American side of me will say this: there are a lot more similarities among Asians than most Asians realize. In terms of culture, Asians have much in common. Koreans borrowed Chinese language, customs, and practices. Yeah, spoken Korean may be different from Chinese, but I can see similarities with Korean Hanja. Yeah, we may celebrate Lunar New Year differently, but we still celebrate it. Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and many Asian-Americans definitely know the ideas of filial piety and familial expectations. And China's history has often been wrapped up with Korea's. In terms of physical appearance, many of my students in Hong Kong felt that Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans looked alike. In America, most definitely, a lot of people couldn't tell the any physical difference among Asian groups. And ultimately, I'd have to call myself a hypocrite. I mentioned in a couple of previous posts that some mainland Chinese definitely don't see me, a half-Chinese, half-Filipino who was raised in the United States, as Chinese at all. So, who am I to judge who's really Chinese anyway? Again, Mike Moh spent time in Hong Kong, worked on the movie sets there, and probably has a lot more Kung Fu experience than I do.

So yes, the Asian-American side of me sees those similarities. And it sees it with Mike.

Ultimately, I'm still debating the issue. Part of me knows it should go towards one of acceptance, but the other still holds me back.

[Tien Long]

In other media

So it looks like they wanted to do a Shang chi film years ago but it did not work out at that time.



You mean he could still be bi-racial asian in the mcu but born in china only?
For the mcu they may make him and his parents unmixed east asians or one parent bi-racial and one unmixed east asian.
It's hard to say right now but i think they will make his parents unmixed east asians and him as well.
We will have to wait and see.

What I meant to say is the possibility that Marvel may want to have a fully Chinese character, with fully Chinese parentage. No mixed anything in there. If that's the case, okay, there are going to be those aspects of Chinese culture that will have to be incorporated into the character.

[Ascended]

No problem bro. And no offense taken at all. Indeed, I'm glad that you took the time to ask this question because it caused me to question myself! I think you can expect a lot of dialogue in this response.

Glad you took my question in the spirit it was intended.

So yes, the Chinese side of me sees those differences. And it sees it with Mike.

Oh, I know China has a very distinct and unique culture, history, etc. And I get wanting that represented fully for the first Asian hero to headline a MCU film. It feels proper and right, just as having a black director and writer on Panther was proper and right. I wouldn't want it any other way, assuming the quality isn't decreased by it for some reason (I dunno why it would be, Im just sayin).

So yes, the Asian-American side of me sees those similarities. And it sees it with Mike.

I really love how you're trying to see all sides of the issue and weigh them all on their own merits.

I myself, I'm not Chinese obviously, nor even Asian-American, but I do have the privilege of working with people from all over the world; students come here for a 3-6 month period on work study programs and as a manager at my company one of my responsibilities is to help them adjust and figure out how we do things here. Which means I spend more time with these kids than I do my family lol, and I spend most of that time explaining Western/American stuff than I do hearing about others' ways of life, but I do get to learn something. It's probably the best part of my job; I love hearing about other cultures from the people who actually live there.

I've worked with a few dozen people from China and one of the things Ive noticed, which is pertinent to this conversation, is that they seem to have a pretty high degree of, we'll call it national pride. Maybe its not quite racism the way Americans might define it but I'll be honest; it seems an awful lot like it. Now, most of those kids were great and I've kept in touch with several of them, Im not judging anything (some of them were assholes, just like you'll find anywhere ). And Ive always just assumed this "Chinese first" mentality I've seen comes from belonging to a homogeneous culture where most everyone shares the same history and ethnicity, etc., unlike here in the States where everyone's ancestors come from different places. I've noticed this with people from Japan, Turkey, and various nations in and around Russia too. Again, no offense intended or anything, Im just speaking of my own limited experience. Im not even suggesting that this attitude is the standard across the nation/s in question, just what I've seen.

Which leads me to this question. Whether Shang is played by a Chinese actor or not.....will that really matter? Shang was created by Americans and his origin story goes against a lot of Chinese cultural norms (as you've mentioned earlier), so are Chinese audiences going to accept him as "really" Chinese to begin with? Are they going to see him as "real Chinese" or as "American's ideas of what Chinese means?"

Does that make sense?

[chamber-music]

I remember Mike Moh playing Triton in that terrible Inhumans shows.

a Scotsman playing a Brit

Scottish people are British

I assume you mean Scotsman playing a Englishman

[Jekyll]

Looking forward to Shang-Chi joining the MCU. While I have never read a solo series of the character, I have enjoyed reading about him when he pops up in various books.