The Master of Kung Fu - Shang Chi Appreciation 2019

[Ascended]

I'm not worried. Marvel Studios' track record speaks for itself. Shang will be just fine.

[Séb]

Couldn't be more excited about Shang joining the MCU, probably my most anticipated movie from Phase 4 now. Now the question is, who will be the Master of Kung-Fu? I wouldn't be surprised if Remy Hii's character in Far From Home ended up being Shang, I think that'd be a cool way of introducing him. Maybe an undercover agent for Fury? It could work.

But if it's not Hii then my choice would be Osric Chau:

[MaximoffTrash]

Good points concerning learning more about the Marvel Universe outside of NYC. Good ideas on how to sneak in Shang's name in there as well. There are a lot of other places that have cultural elements that I'd like to see in the MCU. I'll agree with Shang's conflict with culture up to a point. I feel that Shang wouldn't think that certain elements of Chinese culture would clash with non-Chinese culture. BUT, there are certain times when he has had to reconsider. Yeah, we've talked about how Shang has had conflicts with his father. There are clashes with ideas of filial piety and reverence for parents. Another thing that people may not know is Shang's ideas on women. In those early issues of MOKF, there were times when Shang had to rethink a woman's place in society. Meeting strong women, he had to break away from what his father taught him, that women are subservient to men. More broadly speaking, this is something that modern day China has been facing for a couple of decades now, and especially now with the #metoo movement.

Ultimately, there are a lot of ways to make Shang relevant, relatable, and viable within the MCU. Just hoping that the filmakers keep core elements while also making the necessary adaptations.

With all this discussion, I'd like to point out Shang-Chi's father is a very problemetic figure, and making him represent Chinese values (even the old and outdated ones) will be seen as offensive by a lot of people.
I am not familiar with Marvel's version of Fu Manchu, but it's a name that will stir controversy. (They can of course just ditch those identies, and avoid those stereotypical Yellow Peril stuff.)


About his own name, Shang-Chi actually sound pretty neat in Chinese pronounciation wise, but yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But again, they can find a one that actually make sense with similar pronounciation.

[J. D. Guy]

That's a good question. I'm leaning more towards the mentor role. Shang has done a great job as a teacher a la Spider-Man. He could do the same with Lin Lie. As an aside, I like this mix of old school Marvel Asian character with new school Marvel Asian character.

Mentor role is what I expect to, but then a possible question could within what capacity. Will Lin Lie be receptive towards Shang-Chi's presence? To what degree? If so, why, and if not, why not? That's why I also wonder what Shang-Chi and Lin Lie's dynamic together as a whole will be. And whether and how new-school Marvel Asian character and old-school Marvel Asian character will play in that dynamic will also be an interesting an interesting possibe factor.

Oh, and same goes if Shang-Chi will have anything to do with Lin Lie's fellow weapon wielders. (Perhaps Lin Lie might be more receptive of Shang-Chi, but what of the punkish blonde friend with the whip?)

Basically, I'm really interested in the interactions and character dynamics.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Master of Kung-Fu #17 Apr 1974
First issue of the series (numbering continues from Special Marvel Edition #16)
"Lair of the Lost!"
This story actually begins with two stories.
In the left-hand panels, three punks attack Shang-Chi to get money for drugs, with the usual result.
In the right-hand panels, Sir Denis and Black Jack finalize their plan to trap Shang-Chi.

The first phase of the plan works. Shang-Chi finds Sir Denis's picture on the cover of a Daily Bugle and learns that he's visiting Rye, NY.
Shang-Chi wants to apologize for killing Dr. Petrie (two issues ago), so he grabs the back of a passing truck.
The truck passes Fu Manchu's headquarters, where he is making his own plans against Shang-Chi and Sir Denis.

In Rye, Shang-Chi asks a cabby for directions. When he overhears the "cabby" reporting his presence, he realizes he's walking into a trap.
He sneaks in through a window, which is immediately sealed by a metal plate.
He easily defeats a group of federal agents and, not so easily, a group of robot knights.
When he encounters Black Jack, they fight hand to hand. Nothing seems to faze the Britisher, until Shang-Chi levers him over a balcony rail.
Shang-Chi finds Sir Denis, who is still confined to a wheelchair. Sensing the man's chi, Shang-Chi tells him to stand up.

Sir Denis complains that the doctors say he will never walk again. Shang-Chi tells him to stand up. He does!

"What one knows, Sir Denis...", says Shang-Chi before he leaves, "is not always the truth.
Think on what you know of me until next we meet."

Script by Steve Englehart, pencils by Jim Starlin, inks by Al Milgrom.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #1 Apr 1974
"The Testing of Shang-Chi"
This story flashes back to when Shang Chi was fourteen years old


and Fu Manchu hires four assassins to attempt to kill him

in order to determine if Shang Chi possesses the "killer instinct".

Story by Steve Englehart. Art by Jim Starlin and Al Milgrom.

[Hypestyle]

Too bad Marvel never thought to cross over GI Joe with the 616 world, there could have been team-ups (or conflicts?) with Shang Chi and Snake Eyes and Quick Kick and Storm Shadow.

[Tien Long]

Too bad Marvel never thought to cross over GI Joe with the 616 world, there could have been team-ups (or conflicts?) with Shang Chi and Snake Eyes and Quick Kick and Storm Shadow.

Arashikage vs. Fu Manchu with Shang-Chi, Snake Eyes, and Storm Shadow caught in the middle. That would have been a great crossover !

Thought I'd take the time to post the upcoming solicit for Swordmaster #1 which features Shang-Chi:

SWORD MASTER #1
SHUIZHU & GREG PAK (W) • GUNJI & ARIO ANINDITO (A) • COVER BY GUNJI
ACTION FIGURE VARIANT COVER BY JOHN TYLER CHRISTOPHER
VARIANT COVER BY BILLY TAN
VARIANT COVER BY PHILIP TAN
MIGHTY MARVEL MARTIAL ARTS DOUBLE TROUBLE! ALL NEW ONGOING SERIES!
You saw him tear through Fire Goblins in WAR OF THE REALMS with his big, damn magic sword! Now learn the mysterious origins of LIN LIE, A.K.A. SWORD MASTER, Marvel’s newest Chinese superhero, in the English language debut of the original series written by Shuizhu and drawn by Gunji! Haunted by dreams of demons, Lin Lie hunts for his missing archeologist father – and for the secret of the black sword he left behind.
And in a brand new story written by Greg Pak (NEW AGENTS OF ATLAS), Sword Master teams up with SHANG-CHI! What happens when an undisciplined, untrained kid with a magic sword tangles with the one and only, undisputed MASTER OF KUNG FU? (Spoiler alert: they will indeed drive each other crazy, with huge ramifications for the Marvel Universe!)
40 PGS./Rated T …$3.99

Our suspicions proved correct, Shang-Chi will be Swordmaster's new shifu. Definitely a sucker for master/old school teaches student/punk kid/new school stories (here's hoping we get to see that in Agents of Atlas mini). Still, I do hope that Shang isn't depicted as being too stuffy or stoic. I know Shang likes to lighten up. Here's hoping the ongoing proves successful! At the same time, hope that Shang proves that mystical swords don't mean nothing to the master of Kung Fu !.

[Holt]

Glad Grek Pak is on this. His scenes between Shang-Chi and Jimmy Woo in Totally Awesome Hulk were hilarious.

[Mr.Majestic]

Chinese box office may be business-important nowadays but going overboard to the gatekeepers of that market would be a mistake. trust the creative vision of the director at this point.
They could still find some supporting roles for "old school" Asian-cinema personalities. I could see Chow Yun Fat playing Zheng Zhu for example (he shouldn't have to look super-old-- he has that longevity elixir, right?). Jet Li could be a good guy mentor. They could do some creative casting for other roles.

Wolf Warrior 2 made over 800 Million in China alone, Wandering Earth almost 700 million there. No way, no how are TPTB at Marvel leaving that kind of money on the table. Even if the movie only makes Ant-Man type of money in the rest of the world we'd be talking nearly 1.5 billion in box office as a distinct possibility.

If you want to get technical, Shang is only quarter-asian. Fu Manchu is half white, in addition to Shang's mom being white.

Incorrect.
Both of his parents are half white.
Shang is half asian in the comics.
For the mcu universe they may change this however.

Jebus. You guys should check out this guy who was in a martial arts show until recently. What's his name again? Oh yeah Finn Jones. That might make the movie a success in the Midwest but for the Middle Kingdom go for Jacky Wu Jing.

As for having Shang be biracial, well, I'm comfortable both ways. As I said before, those who are half-Chinese, half-not Chinese (someone like me for instance) has had his fair share of issues. There have been a few (really, just a small amount, but memorable moments where those from mainland China have told me I'm not a real Chinese. As someone who grew up with a Chinese father (albeit one who himself was born outside of China), and was immersed in the Chinese culture, being told I wasn't hurt.

yeah, kids being respectful and reverent to parents, that is a big thing in China. Maybe in Hong Kong and Singapore it could fly a bit better, but in mainland China....who knows?

Look bud, I respect your path. I have 3 Eurasian nephews and 1 Eurasian niece and I love them dearly but their story is not my story. They could be more readily accepted in Western culture and especially if they can "pass". Also don't feel too bad about not getting any love from some Chinese relatives. We Asians are notoriously tribal. Heck I get the ole stink eye every time I go into Chinatown and the people realize I may be Asian but the fact I don't speak Cantonese or Mandarin(studying it though!) makes me an outsider. I once saw my Chinese buddy practically cussed out for only speaking Tonkinese.

One solution, don't have him fight his father. Just have Fu Manchu/Zheng Zhu/The Mandarin as a puppet master type guy with mysterious motivations. Have Shang fight some baddies in a Captain America: Winter Soldier type movie.

For those who haven't seen it yet, check out that "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" trailer and especially Mike Moh. Dude nails a perfect Bruce Lee impression.

Indeed, reading about Mike, he almost seems like a perfect candidate. He's got the martial arts experience, worked in Hong Kong, did that Street Fighter fan film a couple of years ago (that's how I found out about him. Great stuff!). I read that behind the scenes he's a really down to earth type of guy. That's exactly the kind of person that could play Shang.

But I do a little hand wringing. Because at the end of the day, Mike is not ethnically Chinese. He's Korean.

No way would that fly at the Chinese box office. I'm sure they'd love him as The Cat though. However Once Upon a Time in Hollywood has me worried. Then again I haven't liked a Tarantino movie in like 20 yrs. Don't be shocked if Brad Pitt kicks hi ass. p.s. I have a great Bruce Lee Hollywood story I've heard that I can share some day.

So is it a bigger deal for a Chinese actor to play a Chinese character than a Scotsman playing a Brit or someone from Cuba playing someone from Italy or an Egyptian playing a South African? Different cultures, regions, ethnicity, etc. If it is different for the Chinese, why?

A lot of Chinese have a bit of a chip on their shoulders due to how they were treated by the British back in the Opium Wars. Really, that crap still stings to them. Then again that stuff should be taught in every school, in every country. Monstrous acts were committed in colonial times. I truly believe that once China assumes it's position as the ascendant global power and they have their ego stroked a bit things will chill out.

The info below is from last year.
Spider-Man: Far From Home Could Be Introducing New MCU Hero ...

Actually I heard Remy Hii may be the new Harry Osborne.

Shang-Chi is co-starring in the New Agents of Atlas spin-off Sword Master.

I was hoping someone Asian would take over as the new Swordsman. I'd like an Asian dude onboard the Avengers.

Black Jack finalize their plan to trap Shang-Chi.

I'd love to have Jason Statham as Black Jack Tarr.

[mace11]

Jebus. You guys should check out this guy who was in a martial arts show until recently. What's his name again? Oh yeah Finn Jones. That might make the movie a success in the Midwest but for the Middle Kingdom go for Jacky Wu Jing.

I think you misunderstood my reply to the other poster.
When i meant it may change for the mcu,i did not say they will make him a white looking guy since the lead will be of east asian origin and not white.

My later reply makes it more clear what they may do.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ion-2019/page5

[Tien Long]

Look bud, I respect your path. I have 3 Eurasian nephews and 1 Eurasian niece and I love them dearly but their story is not my story. They could be more readily accepted in Western culture and especially if they can "pass".

A fair point, Majestic. Those who have passed perhaps don't share the same story as you. After consideration, I get that. At the same time, I still will say if they support and care for Asian causes, then I'd accept them. And those who haven't passed, like a Lewis Tan, I'd still support him as a Shang Chi.

Respectfully agree to disagree.

Also don't feel too bad about not getting any love from some Chinese relatives. We Asians are notoriously tribal. Heck I get the ole stink eye every time I go into Chinatown and the people realize I may be Asian but the fact I don't speak Cantonese or Mandarin(studying it though!) makes me an outsider. I once saw my Chinese buddy practically cussed out for only speaking Tonkinese.

I hear ya. One time in a Chinese restaurant, I used some Mandarin with the servers there. However, I didn't completely understand everything they said to me and they just basically cussed me out. Felt that mix of shame and anger when I left. Let's just say I didn't enjoy anymore General Tso's chicken from there anytime soon.

One solution, don't have him fight his father. Just have Fu Manchu/Zheng Zhu/The Mandarin as a puppet master type guy with mysterious motivations. Have Shang fight some baddies in a Captain America: Winter Soldier type movie.

Having it be the father though, that makes the dynamic that much more exciting. Shang-Chi just going against a random bad guy? Yeah, the shadowy, puppet master thing could work, but familial ties make the story so exciting. We could cater to a mainland audience all we want, but in the end, I just really hope they see the story potential in a father/son antagonistic relationship.

I'd love to have Jason Statham as Black Jack Tarr.

Ha, maybe slap on a handlebar mustache and it could work!

In any case, just a couple of comments on something Kevin Feige said about people's reception to Shang-Chi:

In an interview with News18, Feige discussed the risk of a Shang-Chi film, saying, "I think every movie that we do is a risk. We only want to do movies that people seem to think are risks. Doing the story of an Asian-American hero of Chinese heritage is something that is very intriguing to us. It will be really different and special."

However, he ultimately appeared optimistic at the prospect of international audiences responding to an Asian lead. "I hope audiences around the world respond to it in the same way they did to Steve Rogers...whether they have American flag or not."

Hmmm. A couple of things stand out. First off, Shang is Asian-American? Hmmm, did Kevin just spill a major change to Shang's character or get terms mixed up? So Shang won't be born in China, but America? Just speculating now folks. Don't want to look to much into it.

Secondly, it really didn't cross my mind that people wouldn't be receptive to an Asian lead. I've been talking about Shang being Asian or Asian-America, mixed, purely Chinese, portrayed by Koreans that the bigger question of audience reception to just an Asian himself never came under consideration. Ultimately, for that, I think people in general and Americans in particular are ready for an Asian lead of a superhero film. While there could be more, there has been more Asian representation in movies and TV shows. Where I live, Asians have become a more normal, accepted part of society. But those lingering fears, that Asians, and particularly Asian males, would be portrayed as being asexual, background, "weird you out" characters aren't allowed to have any personality, I still have those. Or Asian males are just the chubby joke side characters and don't get to be taken seriously, I have those too. I wonder if the majority of Americans still have those mentalities.

I still have other fears as well. There are those are going to criticize and ask why does the first major Asian MCU character have to know martial arts? Isn't he just perpetuating stereotypes of a hyper masculine Kung Fu blah blah blah blah? Why couldn't they use someone like an Amadeus Cho or Kamala Khan, Asian characters that have portrayed real character?

Yeah, those are my fears. But, I'm holding out that Shang Chi will smash those ideas. Keeping the Kung Fu fingers crossed!

[DigiCom]

Too bad Marvel never thought to cross over GI Joe with the 616 world, there could have been team-ups (or conflicts?) with Shang Chi and Snake Eyes and Quick Kick and Storm Shadow.

Actually, they did. Once. But it was in a Marvel UK book (and written by Grant Morrison, of all people):

http://www.bloodforthebaron.com/comi...timageindex=-1

Turns out Shang Chi trained Quick Kick.

[Mr.Majestic]

Secondly, it really didn't cross my mind that people wouldn't be receptive to an Asian lead. I've been talking about Shang being Asian or Asian-America, mixed, purely Chinese, portrayed by Koreans that the bigger question of audience reception to just an Asian himself never came under consideration. Ultimately, for that, I think people in general and Americans in particular are ready for an Asian lead of a superhero film. While there could be more, there has been more Asian representation in movies and TV shows. Where I live, Asians have become a more normal, accepted part of society. But those lingering fears, that Asians, and particularly Asian males, would be portrayed as being asexual, background, "weird you out" characters aren't allowed to have any personality, I still have those. Or Asian males are just the chubby joke side characters and don't get to be taken seriously, I have those too. I wonder if the majority of Americans still have those mentalities.

I still have other fears as well. There are those are going to criticize and ask why does the first major Asian MCU character have to know martial arts? Isn't he just perpetuating stereotypes of a hyper masculine Kung Fu blah blah blah blah? Why couldn't they use someone like an Amadeus Cho or Kamala Khan, Asian characters that have portrayed real character?

I honestly believe that America's more ready for an Asian lead then Hollywood thinks. Give them an engaging story, a good lead and the proper "spoonful of sugar"(Marvel) and we can have a solid Ant-Man type hit outside China and a Wolf Warrior 2 type hit in the Middle Kingdom.

I'm also very, Very, VERY annoyed at people screaming racist/stereotypical every time a MALE Asian martial artist shows his face. Somehow the FEMALE Asian martial artists never get any flack. It's like I'm in crazy-town, FEMALE Asian martial artists outnumber the MALE ones like 10 to one in genre productions. Well as long as you don't count the horde of nameless Asian dudes that get beaten up by the White Saviour and his Kung Fu fighting Asian-y girlfriend(see Daredevil/Iron Fist/countless others).

BTW Amadeus Cho has already appeared in the MCU, he was in the Incredible Hulk(2008). Martin Starr played him in that movie. Why yes he is a White actor.

[Tien Long]

I honestly believe that America's more ready for an Asian lead then Hollywood thinks. Give them an engaging story, a good lead and the proper "spoonful of sugar"(Marvel) and we can have a solid Ant-Man type hit outside China and a Wolf Warrior 2 type hit in the Middle Kingdom.

Good to hear. Yeah, I'm inching towards that as well, that America is ready for an Asian lead.

I'm also very, Very, VERY annoyed at people screaming racist/stereotypical every time a MALE Asian martial artist shows his face. Somehow the FEMALE Asian martial artists never get any flack. It's like I'm in crazy-town, FEMALE Asian martial artists outnumber the MALE ones like 10 to one in genre productions.

I believe that sentiment of racial stereotype goes back to the appearance of Bruce Lee. Indeed, Bruce was a double edged sword. He definitely smashed the mold of Asian males being subservient, "ching chong," asexual jokes. At the same time, now EVERY Asian male was expected to be this perfect model of a martial arts badass. I think a lot of Asian-American men have that memory of being on the playground and all the kids thinking you knew Karate. Now, in order to counter this, I feel that the image of male Asian martial artist has to change. Yes, he still knows martial arts, but personality and character come first. As I've said before on this thread, the MCU movie has to show Shang as a fully realized character.

As for Female Asian martial artists, I think there has been a rise of them, mainly because it's still refreshing. Weak, submissive, listen to the man, those are the stereotypes of a lot of women, especially Asian women. Seeing an Asian woman take charge and be a fighter, that's pretty new and what's being pushed.

BTW Amadeus Cho has already appeared in the MCU, he was in the Incredible Hulk(2008). Martin Starr played him in that movie. Why yes he is a White actor.

Hmmm, a shame to hear.