The Master of Kung Fu - Shang Chi Appreciation 2019

[Tien Long]

At a press event in Shanghai promoting Avengers: Endgame, Kevin Feige again confirms that there is a Shang-Chi movie in the works. When asked if there would be a Chinese superhero in the MCU, Feige commented:

This is not an Endgame question, this is a question about the future. I'm not supposed to answer questions about the future but in this case, I will because the answer is yes.

So will there be a Shang Chi movie? Keving Feige says yes!......which we've known for months now..... BUT STILL....YES !

[Mr.Majestic]

At a press event in Shanghai promoting Avengers: Endgame, Kevin Feige again confirms that there is a Shang-Chi movie in the works.

Also another buttkicking Asian guy will appear in The Eternals, Ma Dong-seok from Train to Busan has been cast. But as who? Hoping for someone like Hercules or the Forgotten One and not a bit part like Phastos.

For more Ma Dong-seok(Don Lee) watch Champion and Unstoppable, two great little popcorn movies.

[mace11]

Another asian as well in The Eternals.
Kumail Nanjiani Circles Lead Role in Marvel's The Eternals | CBR
https://www.cbr.com/marvel-eternals-kumail-nanjiani/

[chamber-music]

Actually I heard Remy Hii may be the new Harry Osborne.

Remy Hii might of made a good Shang Chi. He will probably be wasted as a supporting character or villain in Spider-Man.

[J. D. Guy]

Arashikage vs. Fu Manchu with Shang-Chi, Snake Eyes, and Storm Shadow caught in the middle. That would have been a great crossover !

Thought I'd take the time to post the upcoming solicit for Swordmaster #1 which features Shang-Chi:



Our suspicions proved correct, Shang-Chi will be Swordmaster's new shifu. Definitely a sucker for master/old school teaches student/punk kid/new school stories (here's hoping we get to see that in Agents of Atlas mini). Still, I do hope that Shang isn't depicted as being too stuffy or stoic. I know Shang likes to lighten up. Here's hoping the ongoing proves successful! At the same time, hope that Shang proves that mystical swords don't mean nothing to the master of Kung Fu !.

And now I'm even more curious as to what Lin Lie will do to prompt this, as he isn't shown to be much of a (stereo)typical "punk kid" from what I can gather. He seems kind of harried, in fact. (Mayhaps it falls more on traditional 'Superheroes fighting each other' misunderstanding, but then where does this take place in relation to each other and AoA? How do the two meet, and why?)

Happy to see how this develops, but July's a ways a way and can't get here soon enough.

[BBally]

I honestly believe that America's more ready for an Asian lead then Hollywood thinks. .

Yeah, I mean Crazy Rich Asians was quite profitable at the US Box Office so I could see a Shang-Chi film doing well.

[Ascended]

It's not even up for debate is it? Marvel puts their brand on something and it sells.

I mean, if the question is "can an Asian dude sell a Marvel movie?" which is really more like "can a non-white male sell a Marvel movie?" we need look no further than Captain Marvel and Black Panther, and both earned over a billion at the box office.

If the concern is Shang rubbing Chinese audiences the wrong way....I still dont think it'll be an issue. The MCU does well in China these days it seems and there seems to be a high degree of brand trust. And even if reception is lukewarm, this film is likely going to have a smaller budget (street level martial artists being cheaper to produce than thunder-throwing gods and space aliens) so that'll offset any loss from China.

[Hypestyle]

so how many henchmen and lieutenants from the comics should be included in the film? I don't know about Shang's rogue's gallery at all. Anybody that is worth continuing beyond one movie? Remember the stakes in these films often ends up with some of the major bad guys dying.

[Winterboy]

We really need a MKF comic series ASAP.

MKF SERIES.jpg

[Shellhead]

so how many henchmen and lieutenants from the comics should be included in the film? I don't know about Shang's rogue's gallery at all. Anybody that is worth continuing beyond one movie? Remember the stakes in these films often ends up with some of the major bad guys dying.

Shang's father is a famous character from the pulp era and appeared in many issues of the MoKF comic. I think he should be a major character in more than one Shang-Chi movie, but Marvel might play it safe to avoid a certain problematic stereotype.

[chamber-music]

so how many henchmen and lieutenants from the comics should be included in the film? I don't know about Shang's rogue's gallery at all. Anybody that is worth continuing beyond one movie? Remember the stakes in these films often ends up with some of the major bad guys dying.

If his father is the main villain then Shang's siblings should be his lieutenants. Zheng Bao Yu, Moving Shadow and Midnight Sun.

[Blind Wedjat]

Hey guys. Been doing some Shang Chi brainstorming for the upcoming film. I read about the films announcement on a few Chinese websites and others just to get a feel about what and how people feel about the character. Aside from the Bruce Lee homage seems like at least these websites and some on the internet view Shang Chi as a stereotype, in regards to his abilities as a kung fu master, his name, and also his father formerly known as Fu Manchu. I've read varying opinions on how to handle these things so here's some of my ideas. A few of these might have been discussed already. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts as well.


HIS ETHNICITY AND BACKGROUND

It's established that Shang Chi in the comics is part Chinese, part British. Apparently his co-creator Steve Englehart had once said that Shang Chi was made part white because Marvel editorial thought their (mostly white) readers wouldn't relate to a fully Chinese character. That is a pretty problematic reason if you ask me, and it doesn't help that his mother was apparently "genetically selected" by his father. That's all very weird to say the least. Most opinions I read said to get rid of this altogether and make Shang Chi fully Chinese and I mostly agree. Perhaps the comics have done a good job handling his mixed ethnicity and mixed Asian people do have their own individual stories and experiences. However I don't think it actually matter much. Shang Chi can be fully Asian, and at the very least it can be established that he was partly raised in America/Britain so you can have the (more interesting) first vs second/third generation topic.

This also brings me to Shang Chi's name as well. According to Marvel his name translates to 'rising of the spirit' but according to my own research, his name doesn't really make any sense or it translates to 'running out of breath' or 'upper teeth'. I don't think it will be fair to Chinese people if Marvel's first Chinese superhero has a supposedly Chinese name that apparently doesn't make sense. For this reason, I think Marvel should give Shang Chi an original name that's actually Chinese, and a surname his family actually shares. The Shang Chi name can arise as a (possibly ignorant) codename, nickname, or an incorrect pronunciation or spelling of his actual name. This isn't new to Marvel as the character M'Baku isn't referred to as Man-Ape in the movies for obvious reasons.


HIS PERSONALITY

This is the most important aspect Marvel needs to handle correctly. Their characters and their distinct personalities is what has given Marvel their long lasting success (and where other franchises are failing). For this reason, Shang Chi needs to have his own unique personality that goes beyond the stereotypical "stoic, honorable and asexual" archetype commonly associated with characters of his kind. As a Bruce Lee pastiche, Shang Chi needs to possess a bit of his iconic swagger and charm. As the son of a rich globalist (in disguise), there's no reason why Shang can't have a bit of a playboy/eligible bachelor side to him. It may seem out of character, but the idea is to get rid of this stereotype of Asian men being undesirable in Hollywood media. Almost every MCU male superhero is portrayed as a desirable man by many. Shang Chi should be no different. He shouldn't be too much of a dog nor should he be pre-accident Stephen Strange levels of arrogant. I'd say something more similar to Oliver Queen in the Arrow TV series and Nick Young (Henry Goulding) in Crazy Rich Asians. I'd also give Shang Chi a sharp and dry wit, and an ultimately laid back personality.

This may be the exterior or first layer to his personality, but deep down Shang Chi should be an honorable, honest and good man. He is brave, believes in helping others and doing what is right. He may like fighting more than you expect, but he does not intentionally seek out violence. He's confident and believes in himself and his own abilities, but can learn what he needs to.


HIS FIGHTING SKILLS AND ABILITIES

There's been a lot of debate about the effectiveness of traditional Chinese martial arts in modern combat scenarios. Most of these arts are viewed as inferior to the likes of the ones used in MMA (there's an infamous Chinese MMA fighter who's on a mission to expose 'kung fu fakery' and a video of him beating up a tai chi master went viral two years ago). There are several reasons why these arts have become ineffective or are viewed as such. First, because most aren't taught today for real combat but for self improvement and preserving tradition. Second, because the Western schools that teach these arts may have lost some of the essence and they are no longer credible. Third, because it seems many of these arts were not allowed to evolve as they were outlawed at a point. Whether or not these martial arts are truly effective or not, the stereotypical idea behind it all is the notion that kung fu martial arts are all it takes to win a fight because reasons.

For this reason I think the 'Master of Kung Fu' title should effectively be dropped. I read that some Chinese people on the internet did not like the idea of Shang Chi being a kung fu expert as Marvel's first Asian superhero, finding it an offensive stereotype. While Marvel can't escape Shang Chi being a martial artist (nor should they as it is a part of his character), I think they're better off establishing Shang Chi as a martial artist and less of a kung fu master. Shang Chi's training does not need to be necessarily restricted to traditional Chinese forms. The main martial art he should use would be Bruce Lee's Jeet Kun Do which theoretically and even practically a very efficient MA. I'd add a bit of Wing Chun too, and Sanshou as the Chinese basis. To broaden his training a little bit, I'd add Muay Thai, Silat, and Krav Maga. I would also still like to see Shang Chi use the tech nunchaku from the comics as part of his arsenal. The 'Master of Kung Fu' thing can be referenced when someone (ignorantly) calls him that because he's Chinese and is a martial artist, and not because he is literally one. Another good reason for this is that unlike in the comics characters like Captain America and Black Panther in the MCU haven't mastered "every fighting style on Earth" but are proficient in a select few martial arts that are both effective and add to their personalities.

I read someone describe Shang Chi stories as "old school kung fu movies meets James Bond" and I'd like to see this apply as Shang Chi being a martial artist that occasionally uses high tech weapons and gadgets. For this reason, I also don't think Shang Chi should really have any powers. His most famous powers come from his chi manipulation, which allows him to have greater strength, speed and durability. I wouldn't pretend to be an expert but the concept of chi in martial arts is a complicated one and most of the feats that can be supposedly achieved through mastery are controversial. Some people also view it as a stereotype, so it might be best if the film does not make any use of it. Chi alongside his exceptional skill help Shang Chi keep up with or even best enhanced fighters like Captain America, Wolverine and Iron Fist. The MCU is slightly more realistic and you can see a clearer hierarchy of power and fighting prowess. While there are some inconsistencies in power levels, it's even worse in the comics. Shang Chi does not necessarily need to be able to beat Cap in a fight. He theoretically could with smart fight tactics and skills, but it does not have to be so. He should just be good at what he does.


HIS FATHER (FU MANCHU)

Shang Chi's father is the greatest source of controversy behind the character. Formerly known as Fu Manchu (another faux Chinese name), who is a character some several novels steeped in racism and "Orientalism" and the Yellow Peril days, the character was reworked years back to get rid of some of these controversies. The most popular suggestion for retelling his father's story is to make him the real Mandarin hinted in the Marvel One Shot film. However I largely agree with this, partially because I don't really believe in borrowing villains from other characters, and that's not really solving the problem either. There's an article I read that gives a breakdown on how the writer would handle the Fu Manchu controversy which I suggest everyone reads. It more or less talks about embracing the Fu Manchu name as (another) racist creation within the universe related to the Yellow Peril era. It's been reported that Marvel is that Shang Chi is potentially as culturally impactful and monumental as Black Panther, and part of what made that film what it was is how unafraid it was at (subtly) critiquing the Western world's colonial efforts, racism and other topics like America's nationalism and regime change. Part of what also made it work was that this critiquing was done by a villain (i.e., Killmonger). Based on that article and some ideas of my own, the Shang Chi movie can do the same thing criticising the British Empire with his father as the villain.

[Tien Long]

Hey guys. Been doing some Shang Chi brainstorming for the upcoming film. I read about the films announcement on a few Chinese websites and others just to get a feel about what and how people feel about the character. Aside from the Bruce Lee homage seems like at least these websites and some on the internet view Shang Chi as a stereotype, in regards to his abilities as a kung fu master, his name, and also his father formerly known as Fu Manchu. I've read varying opinions on how to handle these things so here's some of my ideas. A few of these might have been discussed already. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts as well.

You've put some interesting ideas here, Blind Wedjat. Here's what I think. I listed my thoughts under your headings. I apologize for getting rid of your original responses, but I had to make sure there was enough space. I hope that this isn't seen as a sign of disrespect. Indeed, what your wrote gave me a lot to think about.:


HIS ETHNICITY AND BACKGROUND

We've talked about Shang's ethnicity in the past. In one sense, I could definitely go for Shang being fully Chinese. In terms of the comics, I think a lot of writers didn't realize that Shang's mom was white and just depicted him as being fully Asian. It's interesting that you mention him being depicted as being British. In old issues of MoKF, enemies would often denounce him as being British since he was affiliated with MI-6. Shang didn't really comment on it, but one could tell he had some inner turmoil over his identity. I bet that he fully saw himself as being Chinese. Maybe that could be something in the movie. Shang maybe ethnically Chinese, but raised in America or work for Great Britain, which causes him to question himself. Lots of overseas Asians (like Asian-Americans) have that identity crisis and it's a fascinating story element.

As we talked about before, a big question is who would depict Shang, someone ethnically Chinese or not. Do we get a Japanese, Korean, Indonesian, etc. to play him?

However, I'm fully supportive of him being depicted as a mixed Asian. The origin may be rooted in discriminatory editorial decisions. but a mixed racial or ethnic heritage can still be a strong point for diversity. There are a lot of mixed Chinese people out there. I'm one of them. So was Bruce Lee. So is Lewis Tan, who I feel could play a great Shang Chi. There can be a tension of being Chinese or not Chinese. These individuals still feel proud to be Asian and fight for Asian causes. Even though Shang may be mixed, he doesn't feel that he isn't Chinese.

As for the name, yeah, the name doesn't make sense in Chinese, but its meaning is beautiful in English. Indeed, raising the spirit, going forward, advancing oneself, those are great ideas. There's got to be a way to capture that essence in both Chinese and English while retaining that Shang Chi name. Shang Chi is a recognized name in Marvel and I wouldn't want that to be lost.

Maybe there's a way to do it in Chinese? Again "Shang Chi" in Chinese can be written as "上氣." But in the Chinese language, there are a lot of other characters that are pronounced as "Shang" and "Chi." Maybe find two other characters that have that "advancing and raising the spirit" idea? The character having some generic Chinese name and "Shang Chi" as a nickname, codename or mispronounced something....if all other options are exhaused then we go with that.

HIS PERSONALITY

Okay, I'm digging that personality. Obviously, I wouldn't want him to be arrogant. I wouldn't want him to have Bruce Lee's cockiness. Swagger...maybe if done in the right way. A confident, dignified ease is what Shang should have, mixed in with some dry wit and (I wouldn't say laid back but rather a) calm personality. That's the thing about Shang, he could be in the craziness, crappy situation ever, but he'll just take a deep breath and do what needs to be done.

The other thing that should be added is "citizen of the world." That's the character Bruce Lee tried to depict in "Enter the Dragon." Shang should look modern and be very worldly. Having travelled all around the world as an MI-6 agent, I bet he would know just a little bit about every corner of the globe. Just enough to have a good meal and chat with the locals . Final thing is that he should be affectionate. I want Shang to smash that stereotype that Asian men are asexual and stoic. He's passionate and loving with women because he has been in the comics.


HIS FIGHTING SKILLS AND ABILITIES

A lot of Chinese people have forgotten just how deep, vast, and effective Chinese martial arts can be. Yeah, there are charlatans out there with "chi powers" who deserved to be beat up by MMA fighters. But there is a lot of knowledge that is found in Kung Fu, a lot of knowledge that's lost. There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of Kung Fu styles out there which fit in dozens of categories (Northern, Southern, Shaolin, Wudang, Ermei, Muslim, etc.) For me, Shang could easily jump from Changquan to Hung Gar to Bagua to Choy Li Fut to Xing Yi to Hop Gar to Baji to Shuai Jiao to Wing Chun to Nothern Praying Mantis to Southern Praying Mantis and hundreds more effortlessly. Because Shang is the f%^&Uing master of Kung Fu.

Now, here's the thing. Kung Fu doesn't limit Shang. Rather it allows him the ability to adopt other styles. I'm all for Shang learning BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, Silat, Eskirma, Capoeira and so on and so forth. He shouldn't just be a Kung Fu martial artist, but a martial artist. I totally agree with that. HOWEVER, I guarantee you he'd would look at all of those styles through a Kung Fu lense. He'd see their principles and techniques and see similarities with ones found in Chinese martial arts. That's how he would master them.

Finally, I think Chinese wouldn't find Kung Fu stereotypical or offensive if it were depicted realistically. Because there's a lot of real life found in Kung Fu. Indeed, Kung Fu is a lot more than just techniques or fighting. It's hanging out with your Kung Fu brothers singing karaoke. It's watching as your sifu's face goes beet red after he drinks a little too much rice wine. It's morning training in the park while the retired grandmas do their morning dances and the school kids watch in wonder as they go off to school. It's walking the streets of Hong Kong, Shanghai, or Beijing and visiting a night market for some discount clothes or street food after doing some late night practice. It's practicing your hand techniques against a metal rail in the MTR station during the morning rush hour. It's these things and so much more.

That's Kung Fu. And that's Shang.

As for chi manipulation, it's subtle. It's invisible. Shang has mastered it, but definitely not up to the level of an Iron Fist.

HIS FATHER (FU MANCHU)

As for the father, I feel they should get rid of and not get ride of the Fu Manchu concept. How is that done? As we've seen in the comics, Fu Manchu is just one of the identities that Shang's father has used over the years. His real name is Zheng Zu. I firmly believe that Zheng Zu took the Fu Manchu identity to tap into the Yellow Peril fears of westerners. He freaks them out by literally being their worst nightmare. All the while he's deceiving them while his real plans go into motion. Oh yeah, he probably had a good chuckle and said that these westerners were idiots for believing this crap.

Alright, hoo boy, took a long time to write this. Hopefully made sense.

[Tien Long]

So what does Shang-Chi's co-creator Jim Starlin feel about the movie?

"I didn't know that it was coming," Starlin admitted to ComicBook.com. "They only announced it a couple of weeks before the Endgame came out, and my wife and I were in South Africa, sort of trying to avoid most publicity stuff and so I'd never heard about it until I came back and some reporter I was talking to, I guess it was Monday, told me about it."

As Marvel tries to diversify not only its cast members but also the tones of its films, Starlin hopes the filmmakers can capture a unique element of kung fu culture. "With Shang-Chi, I'm really curious because the trick is with that is to get a hook on it that will take it away from the millions of other kung fu movies that have been produced beforehand," Starlin said. "You know, we don't want just another Bruce Lee movie, we want something different, something really entertaining. I'd be curious and can't wait to see what kind of hook that they get to take him in that direction a little bit different than where he's been before."

Jim tells it like it is. Can't be a Bruce Lee rehash, but something different instead.

[mace11]

When asked if there would be a Chinese superhero in the MCU, Feige commented:

Of course there are Chinese superheroes and heroes in the mcu already.

HIS ETHNICITY AND BACKGROUND

We've talked about Shang's ethnicity in the past. In one sense, I could definitely go for Shang being fully Chinese. In terms of the comics, I think a lot of writers didn't realize that Shang's mom was white and just depicted him as being fully Asian.

Shang father is part asian and his mother is part asian as well,so that why shang is part asian in the comics.
The mcu might make him fully asian or not.
Lewis tan looks part asian to alot of folks and passing enough but some folks may not see him passing enough i think so if that is the case then another actor needs to look clearly asian or clearly asian enough for those folks if they make him part white and part asian in the mcu.