Wal-Mart Superman Comic imagines torture and death of Lois Lane?

[Yoda]

When there's a book that shows Diana imagining Steve Trevor's death over and over again or Black Canary imagining Green Arrow's death over and over again where Green Arrow and Steve Trevor are presented as helpless in the same way we see Lois in this book we can have that discussion. But the fact that it's a hypothetical now when you can point to decades of the reverse really should answer your question for you.

The expectations are not outdated when they explicitly want these marketed to people who see the characters on TV and in the movies and Superman and Batman are cross marketed to every age group imaginable. Man of Steel is PG-13, but Justice League Action isn't. Neither is JLU. I don't understand how this is a difficult concept. WHen you dress a book up like a saturday morning cartoon it shouldn't contain something as graphic and disturbing as this story. Yes parents have a responsibility to look at what their kids consume. I sure did and my kid won't be seeing this issue for a long time. But that doesn't excuse the fact that there are no ratings where people would expect them and the trade dress is friendly colorful and in this case a 180 degree contrast to the content.

And yes, people have come to rely on ratings and trade dress to give a shortcut to content. That's reality. Like the reality of not reading a 100 page comic in a checkout line designed to be for quick short trips.

[Yoda]

I mean Jimmy Olsen's execution in the PG-13 Batman v. Superman wasn't even as graphic or disturbing as Lois' treatment on that first page. Even the extended cut doesn't show that. And nothing on any of the CW shows is that graphic and this is the audience they expressly want these to be attractive to.

I've been reading comics for 30 years. I am well aware of the varying levels of content out there. I understood reading the story what King was going for. But the content was over the top, particularly that first page, regardless of the intentions and the content was inappropriate for a Walmart level book. First because they are not labeled for age appropriateness and if anything go the other way. And more importantly, a story of this nature - as appropriate as it may be for a DM book - is not they type of content that should be a showcase for a name brand character like Superman. I mean, these type of stories are in part why Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman are so divisive and poorly received and why Aquaman just made a billion dollars.

[Clark_Kent]

When there's a book that shows Diana imagining Steve Trevor's death over and over again or Black Canary imagining Green Arrow's death over and over again where Green Arrow and Steve Trevor are presented as helpless in the same way we see Lois in this book we can have that discussion. But the fact that it's a hypothetical now when you can point to decades of the reverse really should answer your question for you.

The expectations are not outdated when they explicitly want these marketed to people who see the characters on TV and in the movies and Superman and Batman are cross marketed to every age group imaginable. Man of Steel is PG-13, but Justice League Action isn't. Neither is JLU. I don't understand how this is a difficult concept. WHen you dress a book up like a saturday morning cartoon it shouldn't contain something as graphic and disturbing as this story. Yes parents have a responsibility to look at what their kids consume. I sure did and my kid won't be seeing this issue for a long time. But that doesn't excuse the fact that there are no ratings where people would expect them and the trade dress is friendly colorful and in this case a 180 degree contrast to the content.

And yes, people have come to rely on ratings and trade dress to give a shortcut to content. That's reality. Like the reality of not reading a 100 page comic in a checkout line designed to be for quick short trips.

If parents stop taking shortcuts when it comes to their kids, then the problem is solved. And who said you have to read the book in line? Flip through it, as in "take a peek at the pretty pictures and you'll know pretty quick if it's something your kid should have or not." We're talking less than 30 seconds here to look at a few of the books.

I'm not sure what your point on JL Action is, but you're right - they market the characters as seen on tv & movies. The last 4 films Superman appeared in were PG-13, and 1 of them had an R-Rated cut. Every film Batman has appeared in since 1989 has been PG-13 (with exception to the Lego stuff, obviously). Both characters appear in PG-13 & R-Rated animated features. Superman appears on CW shows, which (I believe) are rated TV-14 or something like that. JL Action is marketed toward kids, like DC Super Hero Girls and Tern Titans Go are. Everything else is certainly not marketed to kids. It sounds like this book is right in line with the depictions as seen on most of the big and small screens.

But, it's all moot if a parent is responsible. Know what you are giving your kids before you give it to them. That simple. It sounds like you already do this, and so do I, so good parenting high-five! Obviously, not every parent does so...but the fact that some parents aren't responsible in no way means DC has an obligation to protect the kiddies and do the parents' job for them. Ratings are a guideline, not a rule. People should stop taking shortcuts and think for themselves.

[DochaDocha]

Late to the party, but DC needs to get over the Fridging-Lois Porn. The easiest, laziest way to shake Superman to his core has been to kill/beat up/do something bad to the poor lady.

I don't see eye-to-eye with Gail Simone's entire fridge concept, but Lois has got to be the mascot of WiR when you look at all the times they needed to try to break Superman mentally, and so the story involved something happening to Lois.

[Celgress]

Late to the party, but DC needs to get over the Fridging-Lois Porn. The easiest, laziest way to shake Superman to his core has been to kill/beat up/do something bad to the poor lady.

I don't see eye-to-eye with Gail Simone's entire fridge concept, but Lois has got to be the mascot of WiR when you look at all the times they needed to try to break Superman mentally, and so the story involved something happening to Lois.

I think what the core of the problem here is that Lois has been reduced (in this comic) to simply motivation for Superman. Not only is she violently murdered (several times) on page but she also has a complete lack of agency as a character. This sort of thing is why I'm a huge proponent of superheroines (or supervillainesses in certain cases), with powers and thus agency of their own, being the love interests for superheroes. These characters can serve as partners also, if need be, rather than mere props.

[Yoda]

King would have wrote that same story about Wonder Woman. They fridge powered female characters all the time. Powers do not equal agency in comic books at all. Lois written poorly as she's only a "supporting character" is a prop. Written by someone who actually cares about the character, like Greg Rucka, and she has all the agency and full partnership as anyone else. These are fictional characters.

This isn't a shipping war issue.

[Celgress]

King would have wrote that same story about Wonder Woman. They fridge powered female characters all the time. Powers do not equal agency in comic books at all.

Perhaps, but I'm talking about the damsel in distress trope and its effects within the comic book industry and fandom as a whole more than anything else. Although I don't think Sups would be as worried about Lex killing Diana with a gun as he was about Lois in the now infamous panel, call it a hunch.

[Yoda]

The whole point of the story from King's perspective is that its not a rational fear. It would have been Ares or someone else. Or Lex or Cheetah or something else.

And they would have gotten around to killing or maiming Diana eventually had that romance continued. The problem isn't limited to "human" characters. The problem is writers who see that as such a "compelling" motivation for male heroes.

[Celgress]

The whole point of the story from King's perspective is that its not a rational fear. It would have been Ares or someone else. Or Lex or Cheetah or something else.

And they would have gotten around to killing or maiming Diana eventually had that romance continued. The problem isn't limited to "human" characters. The problem is writers who see that as such a "compelling" motivation for male heroes.

I think that entire approach to writing comics is outdated. When I write my little stories I generally have the couple work as a team to save each other and solve problems (mind you I do place either or both in jeopardy on a fairly regular basis though never as gratuitously as does King), but to each their own I suppose.

[Yoda]

I think that entire approach to writing comics is outdated. When I write my little stories I generally have the couple work as a team to save each other and solve problems (mind you I do place either or both in jeopardy on a fairly regular basis though never as gratuitously as does King), but to each their own I suppose.

No argument there at all. It's a trope for a reason. The whole love interest in peril thing is a dated concept and is just lazy storytelling. It takes more work to craft motivations and drama that doesn't rely on such low hanging fruit. For all the criticism I have of Bendis, he's at least for now not going to that well. Shockingly, until recently I don't know that what I have read from King really went there either.

This story was a misfire for King, not even solely for the content (beyond that first page which is grotesque), but for the way it was presented. I said it earlier in the thread this could have actually subverted the trope he played with. His statement acknowledges that he sees Lois as an equal that is off saving the world in her own way. And that she has the same concerns about Clark. Had we seen that, juxtaposed against Clark's anxiety fueled parade of horribles it could have worked better. Even keeping the structure similar. After she hangs up show the agency he apparently believes she has! Even if for only one 9-panel grid. Make it a story about partners who worry about each other but trust each other to do the jobs they have to. He said that in his statement and it is implied in the last page of the story. But balancing out the parade of horribles actually could have told the story is a less tropey manner and diffused a lot of the criticism it faced.

[Celgress]

...This story was a misfire for King, not even solely for the content (beyond that first page which is grotesque), but for the way it was presented. I said it earlier in the thread this could have actually subverted the trope he played with. His statement acknowledges that he sees Lois as an equal that is off saving the world in her own way. And that she has the same concerns about Clark. Had we seen that, juxtaposed against Clark's anxiety fueled parade of horribles it could have worked better. Even keeping the structure similar. After she hangs up show the agency he apparently believes she has! Even if for only one 9-panel grid. Make it a story about partners who worry about each other but trust each other to do the jobs they have to. He said that in his statement and it is implied in the last page of the story. But balancing out the parade of horribles actually could have told the story is a less tropey manner and diffused a lot of the criticism it faced.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Regrettably, this was a missed opportunity which turned into a public relations disaster.

It still boggles my mind why any editor would let that first death panel be published without at least a content warning placed on or else inside the book.

[JAK]

I still think it's ridiculous how DC thinks selling comics in Walmart is some kind of victory.

It actually is pretty cool - I'd like to see them more fully distributed in Walmart stores (and other stores), but since Walmart has such a huge share of the retail market (ymmv on how "good" that is) it's good to put Superman comics in front of the people who shop there.

That said... they really should be marketing these to all ages. Not *just* to kids, but it should be at least somewhat kid-accessible. A lot of us started reading as kids. I was 11. There's no reason these can't be done like that, and no good reason why they shouldn't.

[DochaDocha]

Yeah, Walmart had $500 BILLION in revenue last year. Not a bad place to sell if you want to give your comic some consumer visibility.

[Nelliebly]

Kids aside....at what point can we acknowledge that a reliance on violence against women to drive plot and conflict is damaging whether kids are present or not. This stuff is just as inappropriate aimed at adults because violence against women is not some adult right of passage.

Every time Lois and Clark have a sex scene in media there are cries of “think of the kids” or “this isn’t family friendly.” Every time. When Smallville was on the air and the Comic con preview aired with what was, yes, a fairly intense love scene for a PG-13 audience there were cries all over the place of it “looking like soft core p*rn” and “inappropriate.” Countless condescending articles were written about the infamous bathroom love scene in Batman vs. Superman when that scene was 100% consensual between two live in partners and there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I am beyond tired of pearl clutching when two characters who have been an item for on and off 80 freaking years have sex and yet it’s a giant shrug from some of the same people when said woman is shot in the head.

[Ascended]

It actually is pretty cool - I'd like to see them more fully distributed in Walmart stores (and other stores), but since Walmart has such a huge share of the retail market (ymmv on how "good" that is) it's good to put Superman comics in front of the people who shop there.

That said... they really should be marketing these to all ages. Not *just* to kids, but it should be at least somewhat kid-accessible. A lot of us started reading as kids. I was 11. There's no reason these can't be done like that, and no good reason why they shouldn't.

It's absolutely smart business to expand the distribution beyond the hobby shops. The direct market will be the death of us if a workaround isn't found. And selling to Wal-Mart is a great option, for brick-and-mortar retailers. No offense to those who shop there a lot, but Wal-Mart doesn't always attract the....wealthiest.....of customers. Those parents might not have the extra $60 for a new video game, but they might have an extra $4-$5 for a comic. And, of course, Wal-Mart is the nation's biggest retailer. Last I knew, they employed 10% of Americans. It's a great place to get your product a lot of visibility, and the comics are within the price range of the average Wal-Mart shopper (again, no offense).

I really don't agree with *how* they've decided to distribute the comics though. Sticking them in the collectibles aisle seems painfully redundant. That aisle attracts people already involved in geek culture, and the potential of pulling in readers seems limited. If Wal-Mart was stocking these things in the toy section or in electronics, it'd have been better. More kids go through that section than the others, and in electronics you could put the comics next to the superhero movies. Far more likely to pull in new eyes and attract more readers that way, I would think.

Perhaps Wal-Mart was willing to stock the comics, but didn't want them taking up valuable space in those sections though.