Why is Flash not the most powerful superhero?

[Buried Alien]

You can still sneak up behind the Flash, clobber him with a vase, and knock him out.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Dred]

Extrapolating modern version accomplishments makes Wally one of the most unstoppable capes ever.

Writers do not write out scenarios based on what a character can possibly do, so the extrapolation doesn't matter in normal comics.

I think this is made most apparent in the opening arc of Morrison's JLA: when he was writing Wally based on Waid Era capability, Wally was the only JLA member to beat his Martian opponent. Handily, at that, with the debut of the infinite mass punch.

Next issue he's beaten and captured, all off screen. Because The Flash needs to lose or be in danger to create drama and tension (in this, as in most cases, for Batman to solve because Batman is the most important/popular so he is the most effective).

[Kon93]

At one point in time many top tier characters have insane power displays that make you think they are impossible to beat.

I wouldn't think of it as power for power, I would go by importance to importance to DC. Because if say a girl with blonde pig tails and crazy face paint is more important than the flash, that flash will be taken down by her, even if she has no powers, simple as that.

[Dred]

Eh, for most heroes you have to go back to a different continuity to reach the absurdities that Wally was pulling off on the regular under Morrison and Waid. If another character had the same stupid power level showings The Flash had they'd get just as much play in all those online versus battles and such that Wally's famous for. There's a reason no one talks up Barry similarly in those threads -- it was a very specific era of Flash writing. Even Wally himself doesn't live up to the Waid and Morrison stuff afterwards.

[married guy]

You can still sneak up behind the Flash, clobber him with a vase, and knock him out.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Wally was shown to start vibrating the moment he felt a bullet touch his skin to avoid being shot while watching a movie in the cinema.
Unless the writer is Tom King, there's no way ANY Flash is clobbered from behind by a non speedster!

[Dred]

Wally was shown to start vibrating the moment he felt a bullet touch his skin to avoid being shot while watching a movie in the cinema.
Unless the writer is Tom King, there's no way ANY Flash is clobbered from behind by a non speedster!

He actually did that a few times. Like in Tower of Babel he auto vibrated when a mach 10 bullet hit him in the back or during Dead Heat when two super speed ninjas attacked him and he automatically kicked into super speed. Waid both times.

[Buried Alien]

Wally was shown to start vibrating the moment he felt a bullet touch his skin to avoid being shot while watching a movie in the cinema.
Unless the writer is Tom King, there's no way ANY Flash is clobbered from behind by a non speedster!

Wally also got clobbered more or less as described during the FINAL NIGHT crossover event in 1996 when he, Nightwing, and Robin (Tim Drake) were helping contain the panic breaking out as the Sun-Eater swallowed the sun. To me, this moment demonstrated how Flashes are still vulnerable to fairly mundane dangers in spite of their super speed.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Dred]

Wally also got clobbered more or less as described during the FINAL NIGHT crossover event in 1996 when he, Nightwing, and Robin (Tim Drake) were helping contain the panic breaking out as the Sun-Eater swallowed the sun. To me, this moment demonstrated how Flashes are still vulnerable to fairly mundane dangers in spite of their super speed.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Anyone is weak to writing. Anyone is strong with writing. Superman isn't faster than a speeding bullet by your estimation.

[Kon93]

If a writer wants superman to push the moon then he will push the moon, if he wants him to struggle with a bus, then he will struggle with a bus. Same goes for the flash

[Dred]

Nothing beats the writer.

The point of threads like these is talking in the abstract. In the abstract, when the goal is talking about capability rather than trying to write a story, Wally's shown the most absurd capabilities of nearly any modern cape. That's just the truth of it. Saying Wally can "Get beaten by surprise" doesn't mean anything because being surprised is everyone's weakness...because it necessarily assumes they're already surprised. Superman can also be taken and beaten by surprise! As can anyone.

[Buried Alien]

If a writer wants superman to push the moon then he will push the moon, if he wants him to struggle with a bus, then he will struggle with a bus. Same goes for the flash

SUPERMAN THE MOVIE: Superman casually lifts the collapsed San Andreas Fault back into position.

SUPERMAN II: Superman struggles (and ultimately fails) to stop a Metropolis bus that Ursa and Non throw at him.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Kon93]

SUPERMAN THE MOVIE: Superman casually lifts the collapsed San Andreas Fault back into position.

SUPERMAN II: Superman struggles (and ultimately fails) to stop a Metropolis bus that Ursa and Non throw at him.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Thank you for the example, it's as simple as that

[Killerbee911]

If a writer wants superman to push the moon then he will push the moon, if he wants him to struggle with a bus, then he will struggle with a bus. Same goes for the flash

Superman is consistent shown at max power or above. Flash and others is consistent written under their power level. Any era you can find something ridiculous for Superman to go along with consistent pretty high showings, off the top Nu 52 had him able to bench a planet, Recently he rebuilt the moon by himself, etc. Lets not act like it same thing, The large majority of flash rogue gallery are humans who can be knock out with a punch and flash has ability to move fast enough where most humans can't react. Superman is written as pure power fantasy and writers rarely write him underpowered.

Superman is insanely powerful and consistently gets to show he is insanely powerful. And once it show he can push moon he can't be shown as struggling with a bus because that is stupid,Hence people say lower his power level. Flash is insanely powerful but flash is rarely shown as insanely powerful. Flash is barely shown touching his potential to point that Heatwave guy with gun, Captain Boomerang guy with Boomerangs, Captain Cold guy another guy with guns,etc are among his main villains. People never say lower flash power level because he rarely gets to show his max level. Flash is consistent show being challenge by dudes with guns that should be able to slap million times before it registers.His books are consistently written with those guys as a challenge so despite being insanely powerful that is realm he is expected to operate in .

If you are looking for confirmation that Superman shouldn't have his power levels lowered you are in the wrong place. Even without consistent ridiculous feats they still nerf Flash and speed force recently and they have no problem walking back flash abilities in effort to keep him from being too ridiculous.

[Lightning Rider]

One thing people haven't brought up yet is the physical constraint of surrounding civilians. He can't always just go from 0 to lightspeed, hed destroy cities and tear people's limbs off with the vaccuum he leaves behind.

In a neutral environment, it's whole different dynamic, but any question about combat abilities has to take into account environment and contest.

[Dred]

Superman is consistent shown at max power or above. Flash and others is consistent written under their power level. Any era you can find something ridiculous for Superman to go along with consistent pretty high showings, off the top Nu 52 had him able to bench a planet, Recently he rebuilt the moon by himself, etc. Lets not act like it same thing, The large majority of flash rogue gallery are humans who can be knock out with a punch and flash has ability to move fast enough where most humans can't react. Superman is written as pure power fantasy and writers rarely write him underpowered.

Superman is insanely powerful and consistently gets to show he is insanely powerful. And once it show he can push moon he can't be shown as struggling with a bus because that is stupid,Hence people say lower his power level. Flash is insanely powerful but flash is rarely shown as insanely powerful. Flash is barely shown touching his potential to point that Heatwave guy with gun, Captain Boomerang guy with Boomerangs, Captain Cold guy another guy with guns,etc are among his main villains. People never say lower flash power level because he rarely gets to show his max level. Flash is consistent show being challenge by dudes with guns that should be able to slap million times before it registers.His books are consistently written with those guys as a challenge so despite being insanely powerful that is realm he is expected to operate in .

If you are looking for confirmation that Superman shouldn't have his power levels lowered you are in the wrong place. Even without consistent ridiculous feats they still nerf Flash and speed force recently and they have no problem walking back flash abilities in effort to keep him from being too ridiculous.

And very recently the entire JL could do nothing to stop or beat either Zoom or Wally. The combined effort of the world's greatest super team meant nothing when Wally was pushing it to his all or Zoom just showing up and mercing them.