King Piccolo Invades the Leaf Village

[Hiromi]

I... don't think that's really a Rumbles viable argument to be fair.

Oh I agree, just tossing out my 2 cents on the page as the scale of some of the building in it just look off to me, Either that or some of the building in the distance are just enormous

Having also checked out the Piccolo Jr island bust, that also required charge time and exhausted him a lot.

I am so tempted to relitigate Roshi's moon busting but this isn't the time or place.

So they'll have to rely on stats and fortunately, Piccolo and Piccolo are physically quite dramatically above Pre-Shippuden Naruto characters.

Most of King's Piccolo fight with Goku happens after that particular blast and involved more big ki blasts, so it didn't drain him like it did Roshi

[Nik Hasta]

Most of King's Piccolo fight with Goku happens after that particular blast and involved more big ki blasts, so it didn't drain him like it did Roshi

Or as it did drain his own son who explicitly more powerful than him.

[Guy1]

[The Drunkard Kid]

Or as it did drain his own son who explicitly more powerful than him.

Remember, Dragonball characters explicitly have the ability to contain their attacks to specific radiuses if they are skilled enough, which was why Piccolo and Goku throwing around enough energy to make Roshi practically soil himself did less damage than Roshi's accidental mountain-buster, despite both of them claiming to be many times stronger than they were during the Piccolo-Daimaou arc. Also, Piccolo's island buster was kind of unique in that it wasn't a directed energy blast so much as an AOE physical shockwave that turned everything above the level of his feet (not "ground-level," since the tournament arena was raised) into rubble.

In any case, he should at least be as dangerous as Kyuubi's rampage, only much, much, much, faster.

[The Arbiter]

Remember, Dragonball characters explicitly have the ability to contain their attacks to specific radiuses if they are skilled enough, which was why Piccolo and Goku throwing around enough energy to make Roshi practically soil himself did less damage than Roshi's accidental mountain-buster, despite both of them claiming to be many times stronger than they were during the Piccolo-Daimaou arc. Also, Piccolo's island buster was kind of unique in that it wasn't a directed energy blast so much as an AOE physical shockwave that turned everything above the level of his feet (not "ground-level," since the tournament arena was raised) into rubble.

In any case, he should at least be as dangerous as Kyuubi's rampage, only much, much, much, faster.

IIRC (and if im wrong, my bad) Nik doesn't care much for the "attacks can be condensed" theory. Just to play devils advocate, I dint think they ever flat out confirm it either way.

[BitVyper]

Piccolo Jr. being present absolutely cinches this, but with regard to King Piccolo, IIRC he explicitly doesn't like fighting at the level he fought Goku at and avoids it until he's been repeatedly humiliated at that time because it shortens his overall lifespan. Might affect him in a scenario match, but then, Piccolo Jr. is here.

As far as power goes, I don't know if "keeping their attacks constrained" is really the right way to think about it. It seems to be more just focusing more of the force onto the point of impact, which almost certainly has to be true or like almost no depicted feat or fight narrative makes any damn sense. There's certainly plenty of evidence of the stronger characters being more in control of their techniques up until they they go all out, and of course Krillin's Kienzan being an example of 100% emphasis on control is a big enough deal to make Krillin a respectable threat to Frieza.

[The Drunkard Kid]

IIRC (and if im wrong, my bad) Nik doesn't care much for the "attacks can be condensed" theory. Just to play devils advocate, I dint think they ever flat out confirm it either way.

They repeatedly say it, like when Goku wasn't sure that he could control the Genki Dama that he used on Frieza, or how they were freaking out about how Goku couldn't control his full power Kamehameha enough to keep from accidentally blowing up the planet when it looked like he was about to fire it *downwards* towards Cell (before he teleporting to fire it upwards towards Cell, instead). Not to mention stuff like Goku's Kamehameha X 20 not blowing up the planet when a Vegeta that was drastically weaker than even Goku's base form at that point in time was about to blow up Namek with an attack that Frieza didn't exert himself beating as much as he did against pre-SSJ Goku.

Or, to use Piccolo himself as an example, the Makenkosappou having significantly more power than any other attack seem in the series up to that point, specifically because it was condensed into one point.

[BitVyper]

And yeah, everything DK said. The series makes it plainly obvious that the characters can ramp up power while keeping their attacks at least somewhat scaled down.

[The Arbiter]

I dont disagree. My personal favorite example is Goku in God form nearly blowing up the universe until the final clash where he declares "I controlled it!". I just didnt remember any DBZ examples. I havent read the manga in over a decade.

[Jcogginsa]

I... don't think that's really a Rumbles viable argument to be fair.

Having also checked out the Piccolo Jr island bust, that also required charge time and exhausted him a lot.

I am so tempted to relitigate Roshi's moon busting but this isn't the time or place.

So they'll have to rely on stats and fortunately, Piccolo and Piccolo are physically quite dramatically above Pre-Shippuden Naruto characters.

Actually, I can think of two options Konoha might have

1. Sarutobi, who is stated to have advanced knowledge of every Leaf village technique in chapter 120 and one of the Databooks, could use the Edo Tensei (Which was invented by the 2nd Hokage and thus a Leaf Village Technique) to rez some of the earlier kages like the 2nd and 1st. If he can pull that off, then those kages can just keep going until Piccolo's forces are too exhausted to defend themselves
2. This is not a fight to the death. Piccolo is trying to Take over the village. so "Fake a surrender, then poison his water" is a valid strategy

[The Drunkard Kid]

I don't think that Edo Tensei is a valid option, since Sarutobi very specifically doesn't have access to the corpses of the previous Hokage because Orochimaru had them. He is also dead himself, if this is after Sasuke left.

[Nik Hasta]

IIRC (and if im wrong, my bad) Nik doesn't care much for the "attacks can be condensed" theory. Just to play devils advocate, I dint think they ever flat out confirm it either way.

You're not wrong but there's a little more specificity to my objection. While it is acknowledged in text that they can do like "condensed" attacks (Kienzan, Makansapotamus, Tri-beam) and so on, I don't buy it in cases like Piccolo Jr specifically building up all of his power to blow up everything around him and then failing to destroy the stage he was standing on to the point where the rest of the cast survived by hiding in a small hole.

I'm not going to go through an argument that I've had many times before. In short, I've read DB and DBZ and I feel that the series gets massively oversold in the universality of the destructive levels characters can reach.

Also, Roshi's moon busting and, to a lesser extent, Piccolo's moon busting should be thrown out as SMvsFL because the former makes utterly zero sense and I find the latter deeply suspect as well.

As noted, I'm not going to get into it because I've done this dance many a time and I kind of have to accept that board culture is against me here.

[The Drunkard Kid]

The reason it didn't destroy the ring, or could be avoided by jumping into a hole was because the attack was a physical shockwave rather than a super hot energy beam, and a dome rather than a sphere. So it shattered or sent flying everything above the level of his feet, while the ring and the hole outside of the ring were below that level (especially the hole, which we have no idea how deep it was, some the last time we saw a Kikoho hole from above, it appeared bottomless, and this home still ended up filled with debris after the attack, do it was a good thing that there were multiple super durable flyers to protect the lines of Bulma, Launch, and the Announcer).

[Nik Hasta]

As said before, I'm not interested in debating this particularly since it's not hugely relevant to the thread and it's been done to death a ton of times before.

However, this...

(especially the hole, which we have no idea how deep it was, some the last time we saw a Kikoho hole from above, it appeared bottomless,

That's just factually not true.



You can see the bottom of it right after Tenshinhan shoots it. The hole is like... about ten feet deep tops.

[Guy1]

As said before, I'm not interested in debating this particularly since it's not hugely relevant to the thread and it's been done to death a ton of times before.

However, this...



That's just factually not true.



You can see the bottom of it right after Tenshinhan shoots it. The hole is like... about ten feet deep tops.