Who can beat Composite Stan Lee?

[The Arbiter]

You cannot look at Silver Surfer and Galactus and say with a straight face that Stan Lee came up with those designs.

They're flat out Kirby to the core.

^ true that. Course, designs =/= inventing the character necessarily.

[carrrnuttt]

You cannot look at Silver Surfer and Galactus and say with a straight face that Stan Lee came up with those designs.

Stan Lee came up with the ideas, Kirby/Ditko fleshed them out.

[Alan2099]

Nobody can beat Composite Stan Lee. Nobody.

[T51R]

If its just Stan Lee alone, pretty much nobody. I doubt anyone has been able to contribute as much to the industry as he has, or break the kind of ground that he did.

Giving him those powersets is like a downgrade lol.

[wjowski]

Stan Lee came up with the ideas, Kirby/Ditko fleshed them out.

That's *very* arguable.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

That's *very* arguable.

Not particularly.

[The MunchKING]

Nobody can beat Composite Stan Lee. Nobody.

Unfortunately I don't think we've seen HIM for at least two board-wipes.

[Shellhead]

Composite Jack Kirby.

This is the right answer. In the 616 Universe, Jack Kirby is depicted at the One-Above-All, aka God.

[Powerboy]

Not particularly.

Yes it is arguable. Jack Kirby said that he came up with lots of the ideas but he was bad at writing dialogue which is where Stan came in. But the implication was that Kirby wasn't just the artist but came up with lots of the ideas for the characters and who they were. Supposedly, he would work out a synopsis of what happened in a lot of the stories and then Stan would write them from what Kirby laid out.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Yes it is arguable. Jack Kirby said that he came up with lots of the ideas but he was bad at writing dialogue which is where Stan came in. But the implication was that Kirby wasn't just the artist but came up with lots of the ideas for the characters and who they were. Supposedly, he would work out a synopsis of what happened in a lot of the stories and then Stan would write them from what Kirby laid out.

He said, she said.

Not particularly good for finding the truth.

[Shellhead]

Yes it is arguable. Jack Kirby said that he came up with lots of the ideas but he was bad at writing dialogue which is where Stan came in. But the implication was that Kirby wasn't just the artist but came up with lots of the ideas for the characters and who they were. Supposedly, he would work out a synopsis of what happened in a lot of the stories and then Stan would write them from what Kirby laid out.

There is a significant difference in quality between the Lee/Kirby collaborations and everything that Kirby did without Lee. For example, Kirby came back to Marvel for a while in the mid-'70s, at a time when Stan had stepped away from daily operations to focus on pitching Marvel characters in Hollywood. We got a slew of second-rate Kirby covers, and the very disappointing Kirby runs on Captain America and Black Panther. The BP run was so bad that Priest mocked it in his BP book.

[Beadle]

There is a significant difference in quality between the Lee/Kirby collaborations and everything that Kirby did without Lee. For example, Kirby came back to Marvel for a while in the mid-'70s, at a time when Stan had stepped away from daily operations to focus on pitching Marvel characters in Hollywood. We got a slew of second-rate Kirby covers, and the very disappointing Kirby runs on Captain America and Black Panther. The BP run was so bad that Priest mocked it in his BP book.

To be fair, as fun as that run was, Priest implicitly mocked EVERY OTHER run that didn’t let T’Challa job everyone out.

But your point is still basically valid.

[Slade1]

Composite Kirby would also have a slew of characters from DC including pretty much the whole Fourth World.

[Beadle]

Composite Kirby would also have a slew of characters from DC including pretty much the whole Fourth World.

Which, unless you count the Source Wall as part of this composite (which would be kinda weird, but whatevs), would mean Jack **** (pun intended) against the Living Tribunal.

[Alan2099]

Supposedly, he would work out a synopsis of what happened in a lot of the stories and then Stan would write them from what Kirby laid out.

From what I understand from reading many different witnesses over the years it basically went like this...

Stan would have an idea (usually). The idea may be very in depth or it may be just a vague two sentences he jotted down on a napkin. (Sometimes he wouldn't have an idea and would ask Jack what he wanted to do).

Stan and Jack would talk. They'd shoot the ideas back and forth, changing things around, offering ideas, and working off each other. Some witnesses have even claimed to have seen Jack and Stan in their office acting out the comic plots (I would have loved to see Stan and Jack doing a Thing/Dr. Doom scene in person.)

From there, Jack went on to draw the issue. He would ignore a lot of the ideas Stan gave him and do what he wanted (for the most part) and leave detailed notes in the sidelines of what was going on, what he intended, and what characters should be doing or saying.

Stan would get the art, ignore the notes and do what he wanted writing all the dialogue, captions, and thought balloons.

Jack never read the finished comics, so he would just assume all his ideas made it in.

On rare occasions, Stan would have Jack redraw something that didn't work, but this was mostly just cover stuff.