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  1. #1
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    Default More Tom King trouble for DC, its readers and the writer himself ?!?

    Between Batman, Heroes in Crisis and now this Superman mess it seems that Tom King is really starting to tick off some DC Comics fans with his current work. 😠 https://www.cbr.com/superman-controv...s-lane-murder/

    As fans of DC Comics: WHat's your take on this ?

  2. #2
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    Tom King shouldn't even have to explain himself. If people want to be all offended, then let them be. I stand with King!
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

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  3. #3
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    I understand the desire to tell more mature and adult stories with superheroes but don't forget this is meant for children. Especially the Walmart reprint books, shooting Lois in the face and showing her bloody corpse isn't necessary. There are plenty of ways to do this same idea without being gruesome.

    I still think of the Grayson's murder from BTAS and all we saw were shadows, a cut rope and some people reacting in shock. King keeps pushing for realism which isn't a bad thing, he's just gonna keep getting push back for it when done in very tasteless ways.
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  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Yay! More grim dark DC shit. Kings fascination with death and trauma teamed up with Didio’s love for all things dark and edgy is beyond tiresome.
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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Between Batman, Heroes in Crisis and now this Superman mess it seems that Tom King is really starting to tick off some DC Comics fans with his current work. �� https://www.cbr.com/superman-controv...s-lane-murder/

    As fans of DC Comics: WHat's your take on this ?
    I find that I generally disagree with most of the people who hate King. There are valid criticisms to be had with his writing, I have some myself, but I find his devoted haters to be amusing.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

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  6. #6
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I understand the desire to tell more mature and adult stories with superheroes but don't forget this is meant for children.
    Is there any advertising or labeling that specifically states that it is meant for children?

    I mean, I can't stand Tom King as a writer for anything of his I've tried to read, but is this getting a little carried away here?

  7. #7
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Is there any advertising or labeling that specifically states that it is meant for children?

    I mean, I can't stand Tom King as a writer for anything of his I've tried to read, but is this getting a little carried away here?
    I'm referring to Superheroes being for children. Are they not? Hasn't that been the reason comics have been looked down on since forever?

    How is that idea getting carried away?
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  8. #8
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    King is a one trick pony. It really seems his critical acclaim and privlaged status in the DC writing hegemony is all due to the strength of his earlier work ala the Vision, Omega Men etcetera. Even his more acclaimed recent works that parrot the praise of his pass such as Mister Miracle run out of steam and gain more criticism as the series goes on.

  9. #9

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    Sounds like scenarios that are over-the-top but plenty of comic books during my youth have had both suggestive and graphic scenes.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Oh another faux outrage. Social media is truly destroying us all.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Tom King Responds to Superman/Lois Lane Controversy.

    One of the last things noted in the article is "When DC's line of Walmart-exclusive Giant books was announced in June, it was described as "a great way for new readers to get into comics and follow the characters they’ve grown to love in TV and film" by DC Publisher Dan DiDio. However, while they are intended as gateway comics, it should be noted that the books were not specifically pitched as a kids-friendly entry-point."

  12. #12
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    I'm a huge Tom King fan but, yeesh, one of the Walmart books is definitely not the place for what was described in issue 7. Honestly, I am generally of the opinion that most mainstream superhero comics should be suitable for kids - or at least slightly older kids at the very least. This doesn't mean that King and others can't or shouldn't tell more adult-oriented superhero stories but those should be reserved for standalone series in something like Black Label and marked with a "mature readers" warning - and, by that token, the adult books should be allowed to be as adult (within reason, of course) in terms of content as the writer wants, so no stupid censoring of the sex, nudity or swearing (violence is always cool apparently) that takes the intended audience out of the book.

    This is a problem that has persisted with superhero comics since the '80s: the inability to figure out who these comics are for has resulted in superhero comics being stuck in a weird adolescence for decades. And I really don't think it's that difficult to solve. Keep the mainstream DCU series as kid-friendly as possible (not "kiddie", incidentally: All Star Superman is perfectly OK for older kids to read, for example, but it's a very sophisticated piece of work too) and allow writers and artists the freedom to tell more graphic stories in a separate line that is clearly marked as being for older readers, has far less continuity and/ or editorial interference than the main DCU, and is not, as a rule, sold at freakin' supermarkets.

    I'm behind on HiC but I do know that most of my reservations with it would be, if not eradicated, then at least greatly lessened if it wasn't sold as being a crucial event in the DCU but a standalone book where King is free to tell the personal stories that obviously greatly interest him. As it is, I don't think it's a particularly appropriate book for the main DCU with its many scenes of often very graphic violence. Worse, having something with this sort of tone as a lynchpin for the whole DCU, "infects" the rest of the line with a tone that is very much against the spirit of what this particular genre excels at.

    Again, I'm a huge Tom King fan but HiC would be so much better received - and would work better in and of itself - if it was an out-of-continuity, standalone prestige series. Dividing DC into kid-friendly and adult-friendly lines may seem regressive but I do genuinely believe it would greatly benefit their books by pulling them out of this nebulous T/T+ status that they have been stuck in for so long.
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  13. #13
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I'm referring to Superheroes being for children. Are they not? Hasn't that been the reason comics have been looked down on since forever?
    Yes, but that doesn't mean they have to be at all times. It's like someone complaining about the adult western Stagecoach in 1939 because everyone knows cowboy flicks are strictly for kiddie matinees.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I'm referring to Superheroes being for children. Are they not? Hasn't that been the reason comics have been looked down on since forever?

    How is that idea getting carried away?
    Yes-it has been looked down forever.

    They were suppose to be for children. However WHO stands in the way of the kid getting those books? ADULTS. Who want every book pandering to them at the expense of KIDS.

    Because kids are not the ones who take issue with diversity or goofy stories or the other stuff certain entitlement groups whine about.

    If Dc pandered to kids-we have a Flash book starring Barry & Wally-both well written.

    Books like Omega Men, Question, Vixen, Firestorm and others would exist and not worry about getting axed at issue 6.

    The version of HIC Tom King WANTED would still get made. Because Dc would balance both sides.

    Lion Forge is not having this issue. Nor IDW nor Boom nor Marvel-despite a certain group.

    The issue is you got to diversify who you use.

    If Cyborg can't cut it for adults-why can't we get a kid friendly series going with him? He'll have series adventures in Justice League and kid friendly in his book.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    I'm a huge Tom King fan but, yeesh, one of the Walmart books is definitely not the place for what was described in issue 7. Honestly, I am generally of the opinion that most mainstream superhero comics should be suitable for kids - or at least slightly older kids at the very least. This doesn't mean that King and others can't or shouldn't tell more adult-oriented superhero stories but those should be reserved for standalone series in something like Black Label and marked with a "mature readers" warning - and, by that token, the adult books should be allowed to be as adult (within reason, of course) in terms of content as the writer wants, so no stupid censoring of the sex, nudity or swearing (violence is always cool apparently) that takes the intended audience out of the book.

    This is a problem that has persisted with superhero comics since the '80s: the inability to figure out who these comics are for has resulted in superhero comics being stuck in a weird adolescence for decades. And I really don't think it's that difficult to solve. Keep the mainstream DCU series as kid-friendly as possible (not "kiddie", incidentally: All Star Superman is perfectly OK for older kids to read, for example, but it's a very sophisticated piece of work too) and allow writers and artists the freedom to tell more graphic stories in a separate line that is clearly marked as being for older readers, has far less continuity and/ or editorial interference than the main DCU, and is not, as a rule, sold at freakin' supermarkets.

    I'm behind on HiC but I do know that most of my reservations with it would be, if not eradicated, then at least greatly lessened if it wasn't sold as being a crucial event in the DCU but a standalone book where King is free to tell the personal stories that obviously greatly interest him. As it is, I don't think it's a particularly appropriate book for the main DCU with its many scenes of often very graphic violence. Worse, having something with this sort of tone as a lynchpin for the whole DCU, "infects" the rest of the line with a tone that is very much against the spirit of what this particular genre excels at.

    Again, I'm a huge Tom King fan but HiC would be so much better received - and would work better in and of itself - if it was an out-of-continuity, standalone prestige series. Dividing DC into kid-friendly and adult-friendly lines may seem regressive but I do genuinely believe it would greatly benefit their books by pulling them out of this nebulous T/T+ status that they have been stuck in for so long.

    Agree with this. I like your solutions

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