Page 21 of 48 FirstFirst ... 1117181920212223242531 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 315 of 706
  1. #301
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Ivan Reis version was a step in the right direction but he was still Inspector Gadget and him going full human mode flew in the face of everything Cyborg is.

    Stephen Sejic is to much Robot and only a little Inspector gadget. Still conflicts for the design of the character.

    All Vic from Young Justice needs is an official "suit" and he's classic Cyborg who actually captures the narrative of who the character is.

    Since the New 52 the DC Vic feels like a White Martian or a Skrull took his place.
    Disagree, Stephen Sejic felt more like nanotechnology armor then a robot, that's why I liked it more. Besides I'm not that interested in "classic" cyborg, especially since embodying technology essentially means he should be the most modern of times.

    We all have our different favorite renditions of the character, nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying his Young Justice design isn't the defacto design for everyone.

  2. #302
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Disagree, Stephen Sejic felt more like nanotechnology armor then a robot, that's why I liked it more. Besides I'm not that interested in "classic" cyborg, especially since embodying technology essentially means he should be the most modern of times.

    We all have our different favorite renditions of the character, nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying his Young Justice design isn't the defacto design for everyone.
    I'm not saying it should be defacto. I'm saying that design and characterization is the close embodiment of who the character is and closest to how he was when he was originally created.


    Not to argue for the sake of arguing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and favorites. But how do you look at this and not think he is just a head on a robot body?


    by Stephen Sejic

    How is this a character that can actually have a fully realized relationship with a woman? And if that is purposely being taken away how is the writing team using that aspect of him to make him interesting or a well rounded character? So far from what I have seen none of those aspects are being presented. He comes across as a guy who's head is attached to a robot and his only current motivation is fighting.

    Which is cool for a little while but it's not sustainable years on in.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 05-31-2019 at 09:27 AM.
    The Human Rocket Nova Prime Appreciation Thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019

    Explain The Appeal ~ Hawkman: http://community.comicbookresources....73#post3725173

    Idea's Open Discussion And Growth. Silencing Idea's Confirms Them To Be True In The Minds Of Those Who Hold Them. The Attempt Of Eliminating Idea's Proves You To Be A Fool.

  3. #303
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    What exactly do you think makes it Ivan Reis design?



    Nah Iconic. In the last post you placed "Wow" traits of what the characters can DO not who characters ARE. There is a difference. Your list shows abilities not on-going character progression or struggle. Abilities progression are video game stats, which I said earlier.

    You are also bringing in other things that has nothing to do with the current topic. Cyborgs POWERS has nothing to do with who he ASSOCIATES with. That has more to do with a lack of direction due to DC taking away many of what makes the character who he is and more importantly the primary core trait that defines the character to give him direction. There different arguments.

    Being defined as black will do the character no favors either. Black is what he is not who he is. I'm also not suggesting he be treated like Quasimodo. The ideal/perfect Cyborg should accept who he is begrudgingly. But he should also struggle sometimes with the fact that he is handicapped, struggle with the fact that his handicap prevents him from living his dream of being a pro- athlete, and struggle with the idea that being a superhero is not something he wanted originally but he does his best out of sense of duty. Those things are what make Cyborg a hero and a solid character. All of it is tied into his handicap. As soon as his handicap becomes not a handicap he becomes just another character without a proper motivation to exist.

    Odyssey is a momentary thing. Eventually, there will come a point where that will get old and it will happen relatively fast. Why? Who or what is that version of Cyborg when he isn't fighting Space Gods and Monsters. Why, is that "character" doing what he is doing? Because he is a head on a robot body doesn't really make a good premise for a solo venture. So while you're arguing Cyborg should and is the premiere black superhero of the DC Universe you are also unknowingly pushing the character into a box of having no real value out of battle or out of a team setting.



    Bruh...I don't know what you're talking about. I'm honestly going back trying to understand what you're replying to.

    I mentioned advancements that others received according to the niche they were in. I want the same sort of advancements for Vic in his niche which is technology. DC says he's the most technologically advanced hero, now all I ask is show me visually. As in how he looks. Show me in his direction. Show me in the background of a world that's built on ever evolving technology. I'm not asking for anymore in the power department.

    Now we can talk about more than one point at a time. I probably should have broken that 1st paragraph into 2 and it may have been clearer. I care about progression just as much as his visuals. It's not one or the other. I'd like him to be with more than just young boys as close associates. (Again this is in regards to his solo book) There's a ton of heroes he could bond with that are older. Let's try that.

    As for this being defined as black thing. No one wants him defined as black. He just is.

    As for this supposed "handicap". He's so far beyond that it ain't even funny. He's a major global hero and we're still moaning about missing out on being an athlete??? As soon as his handicap becomes not a handicap he becomes like every other successful character that people would enjoy reading. His handicap is a superior form of a man blended with technology. Other characters that are cybernetic in many other forms of media show how awesome that can be.

  4. #304
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    I'm not saying it should be defacto. I'm saying that design and characterization is the close embodiment of who the character is and closest to how he was when he was originally created.


    Not to argue for the sake of arguing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and favorites. But how do you look at this and not think he is just a head on a robot body?


    by Stephen Sejic

    How is this a character that can actually have a fully realized relationship with a woman? And if that is purposely being taken away how is the writing team using that aspect of him to make him interesting or a well rounded character? So far from what I have seen none of those aspects are being presented. He comes across as a guy who's head is attached to a robot and his only current motivation is fighting.

    Which is cool for a little while but it's not sustainable years on in.
    That was an earlier sketch design, a much better representation is how he appeared in the comics, which is more along the lines of this



    This is what I'm referring to regarding being the pinnacle of technology, as this design, IMO, has the most futuristic and advance portrayal of technology ever seen with Cyborg. Essentially it looks like an nanotechnology bio armor, which is a fantastic design. Plus, the fact that it appears nanotechnology based gives the impression he can shift into a more human based approach when out of combat.

  5. #305
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,708

    Default

    Bruh...I don't know what you're talking about. I'm honestly going back trying to understand what you're replying to.
    I think that is part of the overall issue. You don't understand. Doom Patrol's Version isn't doing all of this



    Which is what we are talking about. So yeah if your stating he looks similar to LOOKING like Ivan Reis version then yes there are similarities. But his DESIGN as in tech/powers (again what we are talking about) is more closely based on how he was when he was originally created in Teen Titans. The limitations, use of abilities, and so on. The only thing really different, so far, is the access to the internet. Which wasn't invited at the time of his creation.

    I mentioned advancements that others received according to the niche they were in. I want the same sort of advancements for Vic in his niche which is technology. DC says he's the most technologically advanced hero, now all I ask is show me visually. As in how he looks. Show me in his direction. Show me in the background of a world that's built on ever evolving technology. I'm not asking for anymore in the power department.
    You already have this in his ability to access the internet and minor control of technology. What else more do you really need? Make this less vague for me please.

    Now we can talk about more than one point at a time. I probably should have broken that 1st paragraph into 2 and it may have been clearer. I care about progression just as much as his visuals. It's not one or the other. I'd like him to be with more than just young boys as close associates. (Again this is in regards to his solo book) There's a ton of heroes he could bond with that are older. Let's try that.
    I don't think anyone would argue against that. The very idea is somewhat weird and goes against what the character is about. Vic would be a role model and do mentor-ship stuff with young men but he wouldn't be there best friend.

    As for this being defined as black thing. No one wants him defined as black. He just is.
    Well that part is obvious so you should avoid continually bringing it up in this particular discussion. Others where it is more relevant fine but now it is more so out of place.

    As for this supposed "handicap". He's so far beyond that it ain't even funny. He's a major global hero and we're still moaning about missing out on being an athlete??? As soon as his handicap becomes not a handicap he becomes like every other successful character that people would enjoy reading. His handicap is a superior form of a man blended with technology. Other characters that are cybernetic in many other forms of media show how awesome that can be.
    This is why I question of understanding character and character progression. I'm going to make this as simple as I possibly can....

    A person grows up with an ideal of self and where they would like to go, who they would like to be, and what they would like to be seen as. When that aspect is taken from them or not achieved they don't stop wanting whatever it is. That ideal of self doesn't just go away. There is and always will be apart of them that wishes and longs for what could have been. Vic never wanted to be a superhero. He wanted to pro-athlete. That is what is inter-self loved and at the end of the day longs for. Vic loves the idea of being able to push himself to the next level the conflict of willing his physical body to perform at it's peak in competition of others doing the same. When he became Cyborg that in a sense went away. Now every step taken is more so manufacture then it is by his own will and continual effort. He will never fairly compete with normal people again. As a person and as a character that realization has and should continue to bother the character. That's real story telling. That's real characterization.

    These are all things that make him interesting as his character. Bring up others just means you want him to be something he isn't. Those aren't his story. Yes, he can have his moments where he is really loving who he is but he should always have some regret to his character. Changing those aspects of him just makes him a different character and truth be told having any character where everything is just one good ole time after next is an easy way to get thrown into comic book limbo. Because it's boring story telling and boring characterization.
    The Human Rocket Nova Prime Appreciation Thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019

    Explain The Appeal ~ Hawkman: http://community.comicbookresources....73#post3725173

    Idea's Open Discussion And Growth. Silencing Idea's Confirms Them To Be True In The Minds Of Those Who Hold Them. The Attempt Of Eliminating Idea's Proves You To Be A Fool.

  6. #306
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    I think that is part of the overall issue. You don't understand. Doom Patrol's Version isn't doing all of this



    Which is what we are talking about. So yeah if your stating he looks similar to LOOKING like Ivan Reis version then yes there are similarities. But his DESIGN as in tech/powers (again what we are talking about) is more closely based on how he was when he was originally created in Teen Titans. The limitations, use of abilities, and so on. The only thing really different, so far, is the access to the internet. Which wasn't invited at the time of his creation.



    You already have this in his ability to access the internet and minor control of technology. What else more do you really need? Make this less vague for me please.


    I don't think anyone would argue against that. The very idea is somewhat weird and goes against what the character is about. Vic would be a role model and do mentor-ship stuff with young men but he wouldn't be there best friend.


    Well that part is obvious so you should avoid continually bringing it up in this particular discussion. Others where it is more relevant fine but now it is more so out of place.



    This is why I question of understanding character and character progression. I'm going to make this as simple as I possibly can....

    A person grows up with an ideal of self and where they would like to go, who they would like to be, and what they would like to be seen as. When that aspect is taken from them or not achieved they don't stop wanting whatever it is. That ideal of self doesn't just go away. There is and always will be apart of them that wishes and longs for what could have been. Vic never wanted to be a superhero. He wanted to pro-athlete. That is what is inter-self loved and at the end of the day longs for. Vic loves the idea of being able to push himself to the next level the conflict of willing his physical body to perform at it's peak in competition of others doing the same. When he became Cyborg that in a sense went away. Now every step taken is more so manufacture then it is by his own will and continual effort. He will never fairly compete with normal people again. As a person and as a character that realization has and should continue to bother the character. That's real story telling. That's real characterization.

    These are all things that make him interesting as his character. Bring up others just means you want him to be something he isn't. Those aren't his story. Yes, he can have his moments where he is really loving who he is but he should always have some regret to his character. Changing those aspects of him just makes him a different character and truth be told having any character where everything is just one good ole time after next is an easy way to get thrown into comic book limbo. Because it's boring story telling and boring characterization.
    Ok guy. You got it. Agree to disagree with our views on this character.

  7. #307
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    That was an earlier sketch design, a much better representation is how he appeared in the comics, which is more along the lines of this



    This is what I'm referring to regarding being the pinnacle of technology, as this design, IMO, has the most futuristic and advance portrayal of technology ever seen with Cyborg. Essentially it looks like an nanotechnology bio armor, which is a fantastic design. Plus, the fact that it appears nanotechnology based gives the impression he can shift into a more human based approach when out of combat.
    So far, this your idea being placed on the character verse's what has actually happened. There hasn't yet been an indication of what you are suggesting being the case. So far there has only been evidence of intentions of what the artist and by extension the writer intends. Which is clothes over Vic's clunky metal body.

    Doesn't mean it won't be added later but it currently isn't happening now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    Ok guy. You got it. Agree to disagree with our views on this character.
    Yeah, I agree. You seem to want "perfect fighting machine" and I want a clear defined character any writer can build from and build up. Not saying either way is better or best. Just saying from my experience I have yet to see a character without flaws hold a solo comic or anyone interest without it being company mandated.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 05-31-2019 at 11:49 AM.
    The Human Rocket Nova Prime Appreciation Thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019

    Explain The Appeal ~ Hawkman: http://community.comicbookresources....73#post3725173

    Idea's Open Discussion And Growth. Silencing Idea's Confirms Them To Be True In The Minds Of Those Who Hold Them. The Attempt Of Eliminating Idea's Proves You To Be A Fool.

  8. #308
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    That was an earlier sketch design, a much better representation is how he appeared in the comics, which is more along the lines of this



    This is what I'm referring to regarding being the pinnacle of technology, as this design, IMO, has the most futuristic and advance portrayal of technology ever seen with Cyborg. Essentially it looks like an nanotechnology bio armor, which is a fantastic design. Plus, the fact that it appears nanotechnology based gives the impression he can shift into a more human based approach when out of combat.
    Yeah, I'm with you on the nanotechnology being a fantastic design. And technology inherently is something that stays modern and continues to develop.

    I'm really hoping that Cyborg's confessional line in Heroes in Crisis is foreshadowing bigger things to come.

  9. #309
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    So far, this your idea being placed on the character verse's what has actually happened. There hasn't yet been an indication of what you are suggesting being the case. So far there has only been evidence of intentions of what the artist and by extension the writer intends. Which is clothes over Vic's clunky metal body.

    Doesn't mean it won't be added later but it currently isn't happening now.

    The artist intention was mostly mandated by what editorial had to say. Though by the adjustment within the comic book and the picture above versus Sejic earlier sketches, you can see the artist was given more free reign to do things under his control (hence why his current armor looks drastically different than the sketch and why clothes over armor never actually appeared in the comic book itself) With that said, I don't expect to see him be able to transition into full human appearance for a long time. Right now they're doing some of the most interesting things ever seen with Cyborg, IMO, but because of the space odyssey aspect to it, there has not been really time for them to relax, nor will there be for a while since the multiverse is collapsing. But this epic space odyssey is exactly where Cyborg should be at.

  10. #310
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Say what you will about Kevin Grevioux's short stint on Cyborg but at least he got that damn man vs machine argument done in a single issue.

    https://comic-watch.com/wp-content/u...20_page-11.jpg
    https://comic-watch.com/wp-content/u...20_page-12.jpg

  11. #311
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    Yeah, I'm with you on the nanotechnology being a fantastic design. And technology inherently is something that stays modern and continues to develop.

    I'm really hoping that Cyborg's confessional line in Heroes in Crisis is foreshadowing bigger things to come.
    Could you repeat the line? I did not get the chance to see it.

  12. #312
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Could you repeat the line? I did not get the chance to see it.
    "I'm tired of it all being about my dad."

    "Everyone thinks it's that. But that was a long time ago. I've got to be more than that now."

  13. #313
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    40,518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    "I'm tired of it all being about my dad."

    "Everyone thinks it's that. But that was a long time ago. I've got to be more than that now."
    His dad? Not Man vs. Machine? I guess that's progress .

    But I wouldn't look too deep into that confessionals. From most of what I've seen of them there just meta-commentary and pithy moments designed to fill space in the comic.

  14. #314
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    The artist intention was mostly mandated by what editorial had to say. Though by the adjustment within the comic book and the picture above versus Sejic earlier sketches, you can see the artist was given more free reign to do things under his control (hence why his current armor looks drastically different than the sketch and why clothes over armor never actually appeared in the comic book itself) With that said, I don't expect to see him be able to transition into full human appearance for a long time. Right now they're doing some of the most interesting things ever seen with Cyborg, IMO, but because of the space odyssey aspect to it, there has not been really time for them to relax, nor will there be for a while since the multiverse is collapsing. But this epic space odyssey is exactly where Cyborg should be at.
    I actually don't mind the space part. I mind that Cyborg could almost be replaced by any character because he lacks a narrative currently.


    At the end of the day how does solving all his problems with the tech and human make him a more interesting character? World already has an Iron Man.

    That type of stuff. But that's just me.
    The Human Rocket Nova Prime Appreciation Thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019

    Explain The Appeal ~ Hawkman: http://community.comicbookresources....73#post3725173

    Idea's Open Discussion And Growth. Silencing Idea's Confirms Them To Be True In The Minds Of Those Who Hold Them. The Attempt Of Eliminating Idea's Proves You To Be A Fool.

  15. #315
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Do yall think it would ever be possible for Cyborg to ever earn a little magic? I know it goes against his character but just imagine what kind of doors that could open. Magic blended in with tech.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •