BOOYAH!! Cyborg Appreciation Thread '19

[DragonsChi]

Hulk grew in popular being something far far different than horror. So that is message 1 that you can change from your original formula and go on to greater success. Hulk also is message 2 you can change from the formula every one is used for your popularity go in a vastly different direction and have great success. Good characters evolve

Horror is still in line with who the character is. It's not a dramatic change, its a revisiting to the foundation of who the character is. The Dr. Jekle and Mr. Hyde. The tragedy of having strength/power but being potentially evil or uncontrollable. So on and so on. The character is a literal Rage Monster.

Marvel or whoever else being potentially dismissive of the original inspiration or trying to rewrite history doesn't make the truth disappear. It just shows the lengths some will go to with their own dishonesty.

[Killerbee911]

[DragonsChi]

The point is being missed for example Hulk since Hulk 2 in the MCU has been a lovable brute and in Endgame professor Hulk. Nobody is being dishonesty Hulk evolved beyond being an uncontrollable rage monster. It does not matter that Hulk roots was in horror. Hulk been straight by Superhero or sci-fi disaster monster in comics for years. Going back to Horror is a drastic change.

All this to bring home the point that characters can change away from their original pattern and be very successful. We have seen the cap on what Cyborg can do in his current form we have two failed runs of proof. It is time to try something vastly different if you are trying to move forward.

One, The MCU is not the comic book universe. Two, Professor Hulk is the combination of Man and Monster to hopefully work together as one. In the comics this was a brief change that couldn't last (in story) because the temptations of the monster would take over the humanity of being a man or he would sway to far the other direction were the humanity of man weakened the power of the monster.(Fear element still horror. On multiple levels)

You can't talk about the Hulk period without acknowledging that his continual on-going struggle is balancing the monster(horror) with the man. You can't talk about the Hulk without his forever struggle and fear of loosing control to the beast or even the beast being cast aside by the man. Both elements have been connected to American horror since The Haunted Castle.

Even in the MCU Banner's entire arch was him juggling the two elements and the horrific experience the Hulk placed on Banner physically, mentally, and emotionally. Which was often highlighted with his relationship with the Black Widow. Using the "final" film as a crux to your argument doesn't abolish that nor does not abolish what will more then likely be set up in the future if the Hulk will be used down the line. They can't and won't have the character end just there. They will eventually fall the lines of the comic. Your confusing the use of old elements to make the appearance of being new is all, which is not a slight. It's an actual mark of GOOD story telling that rarely exist in today's comics. Where you balance characters the core of what makes the character work, while making it still seem fresh and vibrant.

[Iconic]

Overly nostalgic thinking is such a problem. There's nothing wrong with key elements from the past but characters and stories have to evolve or interest just fades.

Not everyone is caught up in the lore of the "good ol days". Especially with regards black characters when they we're poorly handled due to the bigotry of the time.

[DragonsChi]

It's interesting that "nostalgia" is down played in a generation where almost everything currently seen as "good" in film, tv, and so on came out before any of us where alive and/or where in diapers. It's simply being rebooted to seem new. But ok.

But the funny thing is it's not even really nostalgia. Core character traits are as important to the character as personality traits are to each individual human being. You take away those traits away and that character is no longer that character. Its really just something else that has hijacked another persons/characters history.

Edit:

And yeah there may be minor racist undertones in some characters in comics but true craftsmen in literature should be able to take that negative and turn it into a strength of who the character is. Embrace the bad to make make something good sorta speak. Erasing it would do nothing more then have it pop up somewhere else, possibly in something else , since a key trait in being human is forgetting how bad things were and how bad things can get when we aren't constantly reminded about how terrible we all can be to each other.

[leo619]

I actually don't mind the space part. I mind that Cyborg could almost be replaced by any character because he lacks a narrative currently.


At the end of the day how does solving all his problems with the tech and human make him a more interesting character? World already has an Iron Man.

That type of stuff. But that's just me.

Because it's not about tech and human. The New 52 opened up the pathways for Cyborg to be an essential part of the galaxy, not the world, due to him being tied to the mother box. This by itself allowed infinite possibilities due to the rich mythos mother box has, so it's nothing like Iron Man. JLO is helping to establish that new mythos, by placing him at where he should have been, an alien tech-godlike figure who can explore the rich mythos of the motherbox and how he's tied to the universe at large.

So he can't be replaced narratively, the closest you could have to someone similar is maybe Mister Miracle, and even that's a huge stretch.

[Korath]

It's interesting that "nostalgia" is down played in a generation where almost everything currently seen as "good" in film, tv, and so on came out before any of us where alive and/or where in diapers. It's simply being rebooted to seem new. But ok.

That's because Cyborg's creation has become extremely distant from what peoples see technology today.

Back in the day, yeah, prosthesis and all was seen as dehumanizing and all, especially for a black character. But today, nobody, and I mean nobody, would care about someone having a metallic/nano-robotic limb. Nobody would think that someone even half made of machines wouldn't be human. Technology is hardly feared nowadays. Even me, who find trans-humanism distasteful, wouldn't mind having a robotic arm, and I wouldn't try to camouflage it, because it would look cool, and I wouldn't mind about it at all.

Cyborg is a tech based character. He can't remains relevant if he's portrayed as an outdated and out of touch vision of it. Otherwise, what will happen next ? He'll be afraid of going into a train because he'll fear that the speed will kill him ? That's what a lot of people believed when train were invented, and they were extremely slow.

[DragonsChi]

Current Doom Patrol protrayal which is based largely on his OG protrayal debunks all of that.

Its not about the tech and the powers its about the man and how both effects him and each other. Its easy for someone to say “I would cut of my real hand for a cyborg replacement” until you actually loose a hand and realize how different it is than you expected.

[Iconic]

That's because Cyborg's creation has become extremely distant from what peoples see technology today.

Back in the day, yeah, prosthesis and all was seen as dehumanizing and all, especially for a black character. But today, nobody, and I mean nobody, would care about someone having a metallic/nano-robotic limb. Nobody would think that someone even half made of machines wouldn't be human. Technology is hardly feared nowadays. Even me, who find trans-humanism distasteful, wouldn't mind having a robotic arm, and I wouldn't try to camouflage it, because it would look cool, and I wouldn't mind about it at all.

Cyborg is a tech based character. He can't remains relevant if he's portrayed as an outdated and out of touch vision of it. Otherwise, what will happen next ? He'll be afraid of going into a train because he'll fear that the speed will kill him ? That's what a lot of people believed when train were invented, and they were extremely slow.

Nice breakdown.

I'll take what Justice League Odyssey is giving me as long as they continue to advance the concept. I'm enjoying the visual feats that have been shown. The connection with the origin of his power may be the best thing to ever happen to Vic. I hope for more exploration of that.

I'm just waiting for the new definitive look for Cyborg. One that evokes pride in the character.

[Vampire Savior]

Overly nostalgic thinking is such a problem. There's nothing wrong with key elements from the past but characters and stories have to evolve or interest just fades.

Not everyone is caught up in the lore of the "good ol days". Especially with regards black characters when they we're poorly handled due to the bigotry of the time.

I'm not nostalgic at all for Cyborg. But I know he's a major character on two popular cartoon shows, a Netflix show, and one of the most beloved runs in DC Comics history, and I haven't seen him performing regular tech god feats in any of those or looking like a normal person for any long extended period of time. By now millions of people have their idea of the character, and, for the most part, (I don't think I've ever said this before) the character works. He may not work in the role DC has wanted him to work in recent times, because he was never made for that role, but in the roles in the features I mentioned earlier in this post, he has worked.

The stuff you may like with him (performing tech god feats) has never worked as well for the character. It has never been a part of any of his most popular incarnations. Reasonably, why should Warner change the character into this beautiful, black, reality hopping tech god in command of all machines on the world simultaneously, when that actually flies in the face of the character's most popular and known appearances.

You want for him to be changed into something that has never worked for him.

[skyvolt2000]

I'm not nostalgic at all for Cyborg. But I know he's a major character on two popular cartoon shows, a Netflix show, and one of the most beloved runs in DC Comics history, and I haven't seen him performing regular tech god feats in any of those or looking like a normal person for any long extended period of time. By now millions of people have their idea of the character, and, for the most part, (I don't think I've ever said this before) the character works. He may not work in the role DC has wanted him to work in recent times, because he was never made for that role, but in the roles in the features I mentioned earlier in this post, he has worked.

The stuff you may like with him (performing tech god feats) has never worked as well for the character. It has never been a part of any of his most popular incarnations. Reasonably, why should Warner change the character into this beautiful, black, reality hopping tech god in command of all machines on the world simultaneously, when that actually flies in the face of the character's most popular and known appearances.

You want for him to be changed into something that has never worked for him.

Cyborg-

His stuff outside of comics show a way better character that does not cry about being a machine.
The cartoon version has a personality, shows off his tech and does not HARP on being a machine.


As for flying in the face of some popular version-lets list franchise that did veer from the popular or common version.

Aquaman to many is a guy who talks to fish. Funny what a billion dollar movie can do to change that.
John Stewart was an angry black man in comics until some cartoon changed that.
What was Shuri and the Doras before Black Panther film?
There are 3 Star Trek films that show the original cast differently.
Dick Grayson, Wally West, Roy Harper, Cassandra Cain, Jason Todd, Harley & Stephanie Brown say hi.
Squirrel Girl was a JOKE and now look at her.

YOu can change a character and improve them.

[Vampire Savior]

YOu can change a character and improve them.

I never said otherwise. You can change Cyborg, but why should Warner do that when he has been working VERY WELL for them as is (Teen Titans, Teen Titans GO, Doom Patrol), and when it will go against all the images of him they have been putting out, which they have been succeeding with.

There is nothing guaranteeing that making Cyborg a god who looks like a normal person will be an improvement for the character. That's just some people wishing for the character to be something he is not, and by the way, I have only seen that on this forum. I have never seen a mass movement of people calling for Cyborg to be something he isn't. And again, if they want that so badly, they should go do that themselves instead of bemoaning about how Cyborg isn't what they want him to be, because the character was never meant to be that. He was literally created to be a man-monster. That is at the very fundamental core of the character. For those who don't like that, I suggest you find another character to support, and I'm not sure why you ever chose this one.

[DragonsChi]

I'm not nostalgic at all for Cyborg. But I know he's a major character on two popular cartoon shows, a Netflix show, and one of the most beloved runs in DC Comics history, and I haven't seen him performing regular tech god feats in any of those or looking like a normal person for any long extended period of time. By now millions of people have their idea of the character, and, for the most part, (I don't think I've ever said this before) the character works. He may not work in the role DC has wanted him to work in recent times, because he was never made for that role, but in the roles in the features I mentioned earlier in this post, he has worked.

The stuff you may like with him (performing tech god feats) has never worked as well for the character. It has never been a part of any of his most popular incarnations. Reasonably, why should Warner change the character into this beautiful, black, reality hopping tech god in command of all machines on the world simultaneously, when that actually flies in the face of the character's most popular and known appearances.

You want for him to be changed into something that has never worked for him.

100% Truth. Some in this thread should read this post 10x's and then start reading for memory.

I never said otherwise. You can change Cyborg, but why should Warner do that when he has been working VERY WELL for them as is (Teen Titans, Teen Titans GO, Doom Patrol), and when it will go against all the images of him they have been putting out, which they have been succeeding with.

There is nothing guaranteeing that making Cyborg a god who looks like a normal person will be an improvement for the character. That's just some people wishing for the character to be something he is not, and by the way, I have only seen that on this forum. I have never seen a mass movement of people calling for Cyborg to be something he isn't. And again, if they want that so badly, they should go do that themselves instead of bemoaning about how Cyborg isn't what they want him to be, because the character was never meant to be that. He was literally created to be a man-monster. That is at the very fundamental core of the character. For those who don't like that, I suggest you find another character to support, and I'm not sure why you ever chose this one.

Again, whole post just straight truth.

But the bold is so key. So far it seems like many here don't really like Cyborg but they like the idea they made of Cyborg in their heads.

Cyborg as a character is great for those who don't really know him, should start reading his OG appearances. For those in here flexing knowing they don't read comics (you know who you are) or have never really read Cyborg should at least skim the character in his prime before trying to defend a stance that has never happen in the comic books. It would help your arguments at the very least . But the best part you will see what me and Vampire Savior are talking about and how cool Cyborg actually is when he is himself.

[9th.]

beautiful picture

[Wakeneuron]

Cyborg has done some amazing things. In the Technis Imperative mini series he basically took over an entire alien planet and attacked the Justice League, Earth and the Titans with it. Afterwards his soul was transferred into the omega drome body. Then shortly thereafter Nightwing made a clone of his old human body and then Vic merge with it and was now human again for a significant part of time. He only became Cyborg again once the Thinker, a Flash villain froze his cybernetics back into place. Now that Rebirth is here and Cyborg once again had some type of history with the Titans these events maybe canon again but it would probably depend on what DC wants. In his last solo series I thought that the fact that John Semper jr. did a technological singularity storyline was pretty amazing. And I'm positive that this was the first time it has been done in a mainstream comic book. The digital universe concept that came out of that storyline could be use to explain the existence of unpopular Nu 52 characters like the Kid Flash from the Teen Titans new 52 run.