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  1. #361
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    I was thinking about that Technis stuff when making my earlier posts, but I wanted to stay on the point that Cyborg has actually succeeded as a character for WB, and it has never really been with godly abilities. When he has done stuff like that, it hasn't worked as well and hasn't been long running in a major capacity. Like, he hasn't ascended to being a regular looking person or a god and stayed there.

    As I said before, you CAN change Cyborg. Personally, I would love it if there was a whole series based off his Night Begins to Shine adventures, as I feel this is the most interesting take on the character. But at the same time, I understand why DC and WB don't take the character in that direction, despite it being really popular, and I'm not going to blame them for making the most likely sound decision to keep Cyborg identifiable to the millions of people who know the character.

    That said, I don't believe this means Cyborg should always stay stagnant, but wanting to change him at the level I have read some posters want him changed would be like turning The Thing and Swamp Thing into regular looking guys who are gods and keeping them that way. That's just a strange thing to do when you consider who those characters are.

  2. #362
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    Anyway...I'm excited for Cyborg's direction thus far in JLO. Potential is there. (Tighten up the look) Those who want OG Vic, that stay stale Vic, there's all those back issues to bathe in. Enjoy!

  3. #363
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    Cyborg should be 1/2 Human and 1/2 Machine. Otherwise, he'd be ROBOTMAN.

  4. #364
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Every time recently Cyborg has been in the hands of creative team which remotely like him he progress forward much in the way many of us are talking about. I mean under Priest in Justice League and Walker( I believe) he could nanotech change himself to appear more human. Various version of him have shown different degrees of power level and shown wide variety of skills. He already is Tech God we are talking about honestly. At this point we want them stop walking back changes. We don't need find a new character we just need to get editor/creative team to stop walking back changes and let him evolve.I am not the one changing Cyborg. We are not imaging these things you can see path of progression but every time he goes forward to this and we see light at the end of the tunnel

    Capture.jpg



    Somebody goes no he must be this



    Every time someone buys into the new vision of Cyborg, Some person on top goes this how Cyborg should be and destroy the progress forward.

    People are funny I like Cyborg how he is them not changing it is not going to stop me from liking him but glimpses of better Cyborg they have shown me.Well I like that better. If I don't like stupid clunky big stupid armor version with just of piece of face it doesn't mean I should quit being a fan. It means I like the progress forward Cyborg in the recent books and I hope DC push the new 2.0 version of character like how Marvel push Captain Marvel which was change in character looks, position and importance in the universe,etc. Characters can evolve from what they started as Ms Marvel went from a C-list in swimsuit to Marvel most valuable female character, A leader on the level of Captain America who is used in big stories, she got a revamp origin, at some point her power level is going to match the movies but she is used as clear heavy hitter. Yeah keep on telling me should accept it as it will never change.

    PS- Marvel has relaunched Captain Marvel solo several times because they understood the value of keeping her around because they intend to use her as flagship female. When Cyborg was put on the Justice League that should have been the mentality from DC.

  5. #365
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Make something clear....No one is saying Cyborgs tech can not change/be upgraded. We are saying that what makes him Victor Stone AKA Cyborg isn't his tech/powers its the core principles of who he is as a character. Ergo the Teen/Man who dreamed of a football career but got that and the use of his limbs taken away from him. That can not change. Without that he isn't the same character and he really is nothing at all besides a robot man with who blast stuff sometimes.

    The fact that Captain Marvel of all characters is now being used as an example just shows how some really do not understand character development, corporate agenda, and the current state of the Comic industry at all. lol
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 06-05-2019 at 06:14 AM.
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  6. #366
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    John Semper jr.'s Cyborg run has the best and most extensive cast in the modern day run for the character which included Variant, Exxy, Black Narcissus, Fyre Wyre, and Terrance Fisher and his private army stationed in Iraq and of course the introduction of the Digital Universe. But all of his supporting characters and villains are now just being ignored. Cyborg hasn't mentioned his father once in JLO. Right now Cyborg is kind just in limbo in the JLO. His character is definetly not making any progressions while up in space. But it was cool seeing that Cyborg's opening scene in the Doom Patrol tv show was inspired by Cyborg # 1 written by John Semper jr.

  7. #367
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    I don't have an issue with "man vs machine" as the thematic underpinning of what Cyborg is supposed to represent, similar to how Batman's primary theme is "law vs. order" or Aquaman's is "creating peace between land and sea". The main gripe I've had with Cyborg as a supposed League founder is that his theme is seemingly only approached through the lens of whether or not he accepts his appearance. It's bland storytelling and really misses the scope of what types of narratives he can touch on. His arc should be bigger than him complaining about his looks, which is why I think so many people just want to change his appearance entirely so weak writers don't obsess over it.

    Personally speaking, I'm cool with the DCYou look just without the face plate, but other than that, Cyborg's main problem isn't his look, it's how writers choose to approach his "world". Man vs Machine can touch everything from the question of immortality, to the struggle of faith, to the issue of AI rights, and as he's written now Cyborg has nothing to say about those things or anything else. There are ways to make the character question himself that don't have to with questioning his humanity. His feats are fine (there's not a huge difference between his Teen Titans Go depiction and the comics other than maybe the hacking and teleportation) and his looks are secondary, but Cyborg will never be a considered a "great" solo character if the stories he tells aren't meaningful.

    All it takes is a dedicated editorially-mandated direction. As others have said, a few characters over at Marvel have gotten that. And the way Hal always finds himself in his position of prominence in GL tells me DC is capable of the same. If they're not willing to let the character get over his ugliness (whether they choose to reverse it or not even though I prefer they do) then they're always limiting his character. At that point they might as well have Vixen or Black Lightning take his League spot and give them a few shots at a solo.

    Cyborg's incarnations in other media may have worked in a team ensemble where there were other characters to be interested in, but DC is gonna have to advance his concepts if they want him to be a viable solo success. Every page that's spent on him mulling over the humanity he "lost" is a page that could've been used to develop his supporting cast, a villain, a love interest, or him and who he is outside the tragedy.

    And I'm not really seeing why DC has to give too much thought to how his comic depiction matches with his appearance on a few shows. It's rather clear a few years into the whole superhero explosion in pop culture that portrayal in outside media doesn't have much to do with comics. In the same way you have Dick Grayson Robin and then Nightwing in the comics, is it really too difficult to have a fun-loving, mostly robotic Cyborg on the show and a more mature, techno-organic Cyborg in the comic medium? For the handful of casuals that pick up a comic as a result of these shows it shouldn't be impossible for them to understand that the depictions are not the same even though many things cross over. Much like how they'd understand Nightwing is Robin, but more experienced, they'd probably understand Cyborg is the same as Cyborg but with a few upgrades.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    People are funny I like Cyborg how he is them not changing it is not going to stop me from liking him but glimpses of better Cyborg they have shown me.Well I like that better. If I don't like stupid clunky big stupid armor version with just of piece of face it doesn't mean I should quit being a fan. It means I like the progress forward Cyborg in the recent books and I hope DC push the new 2.0 version of character like how Marvel push Captain Marvel which was change in character looks, position and importance in the universe,etc. Characters can evolve from what they started as Ms Marvel went from a C-list in swimsuit to Marvel most valuable female character, A leader on the level of Captain America who is used in big stories, she got a revamp origin, at some point her power level is going to match the movies but she is used as clear heavy hitter. Yeah keep on telling me should accept it as it will never change.

    PS- Marvel has relaunched Captain Marvel solo several times because they understood the value of keeping her around because they intend to use her as flagship female. When Cyborg was put on the Justice League that should have been the mentality from DC.
    Lol, Captain Marvel is one of the most controversial characters in comics right now. Marvel is going to push her even if she doesn’t work just because they needed a flagship female lead and also she’s going to be the new face of the MCU. If Cyborg was to have had the push that Captain Marvel had he would’ve suffered similar backlash, maybe even worse since he’s black. You can look at some of the early reactions to Duke Thomas as just a taste of what would’ve happened to Cyborg. DC isn’t interested in a flagship black hero and least of all one who is one of the faces of DC, if they were they would’ve made the appropriate investment in Cyborg. It’s been almost a decade since the New 52 and Cyborg has not increased any interest amongst fans that would warrants an entire focus on his character from comics to movies. His character is now proverbial Lebron James that jumps between teams but still can’t find the right place JL, JLO, TT and now DP.
    Last edited by Mr HardKnocks; 06-05-2019 at 08:49 AM.

  9. #369
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I don't have an issue with "man vs machine" as the thematic underpinning of what Cyborg is supposed to represent, similar to how Batman's primary theme is "law vs. order" or Aquaman's is "creating peace between land and sea". The main gripe I've had with Cyborg as a supposed League founder is that his theme is seemingly only approached through the lens of whether or not he accepts his appearance. It's bland storytelling and really misses the scope of what types of narratives he can touch on. His arc should be bigger than him complaining about his looks, which is why I think so many people just want to change his appearance entirely so weak writers don't obsess over it.
    That's it! They can't move beyond that one note.

    It's absolutely comical that there are those who believe Vic losing out on some tired football career is a core principal to the character. How long should one be tormented over that? Such limited thinking. Beyond the initial shock of his circumstances and after some time, he'd no longer even care about that. Those athletes would be looking up to him because of how his talents would dwarf their own.

    Imagine you have limbs that morph into amazing technological weapons/tools. The ability to fly. Being able to travel to distant world's. Among the world's greatest heroes saving the universe. But, oh wait! You gotta find time to mourn over not playing football with the mere mortals. Yep. That makes sense!

  10. #370
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    It has more to do than just his looks. If you don't understand that then you really do not understand the character.
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  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    Lol, Captain Marvel is one of the most controversial characters in comics right now. Marvel is going to push her even if she doesn’t work just because they needed a flagship female lead and also she’s going to be the new face of the MCU. If Cyborg was to have had the push that Captain Marvel had he would’ve suffered similar backlash, maybe even worse since he’s black. You can look at some of the early reactions to Duke Thomas as just a taste of what would’ve happened to Cyborg. DC isn’t interested in a flagship black hero and least of all one who is one of the faces of DC, if they were they would’ve made the appropriate investment in Cyborg. It’s been almost a decade since the New 52 and Cyborg has not increased any interest amongst fans that would warrants an entire focus on his character from comics to movies. His character is now proverbial Lebron James that jumps between teams but still can’t find the right place JL, JLO, TT and now DP.
    One thing Marvel does right is that they will push minority and female characters regardless of fan opinion. If DC pushed their minority and female characters(ones who actually deserve it and not Harley Quinn)instead of whatever they're trying to do now, we would have a better DC comics universe.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    One thing Marvel does right is that they will push minority and female characters regardless of fan opinion. If DC pushed their minority and female characters(ones who actually deserve it and not Harley Quinn)instead of whatever they're trying to do now, we would have a better DC comics universe.

    While True, I definitely believe JLO is definitely a step in the right direction. It's taking Cyborg in the an incredible direction, the potential that we all seen since New 52. We knew with his mother box that he was destined to be deeply involved in not just the galaxy, but the multiverse, and JLO is finally bringing that potential to light and it's easily my favorite direction of Cyborg since New 52 first began.


    Also, just to forewarn. While it's alright to prefer either the classic Cyborg or New 52 Cyborg, it's against the rules to talk down on a specific version of that character in the appreciation thread. I noticed a few people here talking about how the New 52 version doesn't work for the character and that's technically against the rules.

  13. #373
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    Lol, Captain Marvel is one of the most controversial characters in comics right now. Marvel is going to push her even if she doesn’t work just because they needed a flagship female lead and also she’s going to be the new face of the MCU. If Cyborg was to have had the push that Captain Marvel had he would’ve suffered similar backlash, maybe even worse since he’s black. You can look at some of the early reactions to Duke Thomas as just a taste of what would’ve happened to Cyborg. DC isn’t interested in a flagship black hero and least of all one who is one of the faces of DC, if they were they would’ve made the appropriate investment in Cyborg. It’s been almost a decade since the New 52 and Cyborg has not increased any interest amongst fans that would warrants an entire focus on his character from comics to movies. His character is now proverbial Lebron James that jumps between teams but still can’t find the right place JL, JLO, TT and now DP.


    Captain Marvel has a movie that made a billion dollars, Number 1 issue that was the second high selling issue of that month, Is being used at the forefront of events and still has an ongoing. While somehow after being in Justice League the movie, Teen Titan go movie, Young Justice and in several other cartoons, appearing in Doom Patrol, Is a member of Justice League AND Cyborg does not have solo comic and he does not have a movie. The Captian Marvel Backlash is not real and she is not being hurt . She hasn't been affected by backlash Captian Marvel solo book on comichron sells in the 30k to 20k range eventually something Black Panther, Iron Man, Hawkman or Green Arrow many others sell around. Regardless of how many times it has been restarted the her books were never in 10,000 this book is dead meat cancel range.

    If backlash means that DC is going to give a book space grow and bounce after a bad creative team or run, Fine. If Backlash means they put out your solo movie. Fine. If Backlash means in every event you are getting import roles and getting your own book. Fine, If Backlash means DC wants to make you the face to market to a consumer group. Fine. If Backlash means DC putting out the understanding out that Cyborg is an important hero and leader and narratively push you like that.Fine. Y'all is tripping. Next year April 3 was supposed to be his solo movie. But Marvel did something horrible with Captian Marvel lol

  14. #374
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Killerbee the month that Captain Marvel had the #1 Highest sales was the same month news outlets reported that Marvel had over shipped the regular title and variant covers. Her title has been sitting in the 15k-20k order range almost every other time since 2012 and has been relaunched due to poor sales a total of 9 times now.(That Translates to almost 2x's a year) It is currently cancelled as well with no word on when the next relaunch is yet. But IDW is making a book for her.

    Captain Marvel isn't example of success but an example of corporate agenda. On just about every level.

    If backlash means that DC is going to give a book space grow and bounce after a bad creative team or run, Fine. If Backlash means they put out your solo movie. Fine. If Backlash means in every event you are getting import roles and getting your own book. Fine, If Backlash means DC wants to make you the face to market to a consumer group. Fine. If Backlash means DC putting out the understanding out that Cyborg is an important hero and leader and narratively push you like that.Fine. Y'all is tripping. Next year April 3 was supposed to be his solo movie. But Marvel did something horrible with Captian Marvel lol
    And this attitude right her is the reason why Vertigo has just shut it's doors. With Marvel and DC getting close to following their lead.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 06-05-2019 at 10:57 AM.
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  15. #375
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Captain Marvel has a movie that made a billion dollars, Number 1 issue that was the second high selling issue of that month, Is being used at the forefront of events and still has an ongoing. While somehow after being in Justice League the movie, Teen Titan go movie, Young Justice and in several other cartoons, appearing in Doom Patrol, Is a member of Justice League AND Cyborg does not have solo comic and he does not have a movie. The Captian Marvel Backlash is not real and she is not being hurt . She hasn't been affected by backlash Captian Marvel solo book on comichron sells in the 30k to 20k range eventually something Black Panther, Iron Man, Hawkman or Green Arrow many others sell around. Regardless of how many times it has been restarted the her books were never in 10,000 this book is dead meat cancel range.

    If backlash means that DC is going to give a book space grow and bounce after a bad creative team or run, Fine. If Backlash means they put out your solo movie. Fine. If Backlash means in every event you are getting import roles and getting your own book. Fine, If Backlash means DC wants to make you the face to market to a consumer group. Fine. If Backlash means DC putting out the understanding out that Cyborg is an important hero and leader and narratively push you like that.Fine. Y'all is tripping. Next year April 3 was supposed to be his solo movie. But Marvel did something horrible with Captian Marvel lol
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