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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Every time recently Cyborg has been in the hands of creative team which remotely like him he progress forward much in the way many of us are talking about. I mean under Priest in Justice League and Walker( I believe) he could nanotech change himself to appear more human. Various version of him have shown different degrees of power level and shown wide variety of skills. He already is Tech God we are talking about honestly. At this point we want them stop walking back changes. We don't need find a new character we just need to get editor/creative team to stop walking back changes and let him evolve.I am not the one changing Cyborg. We are not imaging these things you can see path of progression but every time he goes forward to this and we see light at the end of the tunnel

    Attachment 83068



    Somebody goes no he must be this



    Every time someone buys into the new vision of Cyborg, Some person on top goes this how Cyborg should be and destroy the progress forward.

    People are funny I like Cyborg how he is them not changing it is not going to stop me from liking him but glimpses of better Cyborg they have shown me.Well I like that better. If I don't like stupid clunky big stupid armor version with just of piece of face it doesn't mean I should quit being a fan. It means I like the progress forward Cyborg in the recent books and I hope DC push the new 2.0 version of character like how Marvel push Captain Marvel which was change in character looks, position and importance in the universe,etc. Characters can evolve from what they started as Ms Marvel went from a C-list in swimsuit to Marvel most valuable female character, A leader on the level of Captain America who is used in big stories, she got a revamp origin, at some point her power level is going to match the movies but she is used as clear heavy hitter. Yeah keep on telling me should accept it as it will never change.

    PS- Marvel has relaunched Captain Marvel solo several times because they understood the value of keeping her around because they intend to use her as flagship female. When Cyborg was put on the Justice League that should have been the mentality from DC.
    Wait what? The Sejic version is anything but destroying progress, the only difference is the Ivas version looks more humanistic while the Sejic version looks more like organic nanotech body armor (It reminds me of Crysis to be honest which is an awesome design). Both are progressing in futuristic matters, just with different ideology. Regression is when they revert to the big bulky armor with components looking like CRT screens.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    That's it! They can't move beyond that one note.

    It's absolutely comical that there are those who believe Vic losing out on some tired football career is a core principal to the character. How long should one be tormented over that?
    That could realistically bother someone the rest of their lives, actually. I don't know if anyone is actually going to just completely "get over" losing their limbs, even if they do get powers in exchange. Anakin Skywalker didn't just get over it. Batman doesn't just "get over" the murder of his parents. I know people who still talk about stuff from years and years ago, like losing their business, losing a court case, losing their house, and stuff like that, and that isn't nearly as traumatic as losing your limbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    It’s been almost a decade since the New 52 and Cyborg has not increased any interest amongst fans that would warrants an entire focus on his character from comics to movies. His character is now proverbial Lebron James that jumps between teams but still can’t find the right place JL, JLO, TT and now DP.
    This is true. I think Cyborg works okay on certain teams, but DC hasn't gotten him to work as a solo hero, Justice League founder, or a symbol of wish fulfillment power fantasy with a diverse hero in the same way Superman, Batman, and so on are. Again, Cyborg doesn't work as those things largely because Marv Wolfman and George Perez did not create him to be those things. They created him as a tormented man-monster. These discussions are mainly the result of DC's own misguided attempts to...promote Cyborg and have him fill a spot he just doesn't adequately fill.
    Last edited by Vampire Savior; 06-05-2019 at 11:30 AM.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    While True, I definitely believe JLO is definitely a step in the right direction. It's taking Cyborg in the an incredible direction, the potential that we all seen since New 52. We knew with his mother box that he was destined to be deeply involved in not just the galaxy, but the multiverse, and JLO is finally bringing that potential to light and it's easily my favorite direction of Cyborg since New 52 first began.


    Also, just to forewarn. While it's alright to prefer either the classic Cyborg or New 52 Cyborg, it's against the rules to talk down on a specific version of that character in the appreciation thread. I noticed a few people here talking about how the New 52 version doesn't work for the character and that's technically against the rules.
    JLO is the best thing DC has done with Cyborg in years and I hope that the book sticks around after the current storyline is over.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Killerbee the month that Captain Marvel had the #1 Highest sales was the same month news outlets reported that Marvel had over shipped the regular title and variant covers. Her title has been sitting in the 15k-20k order range almost every other time since 2012 and has been relaunched due to poor sales a total of 9 times now.(That Translates to almost 2x's a year) It is currently cancelled as well with no word on when the next relaunch is yet. But IDW is making a book for her.
    .
    (2012)Captain Marvel 17 $3.99 Marvel 18,173
    (2014)Captain Marvel 15 $3.99 Marvel 19,740
    (2015)Captain Marvel And Carol Corps 4 $3.99 Marvel 22,106
    (2016) Captain Marvel 10 $4.99 Marvel 19,893
    (2017)Mighty Captain Marvel 9 $3.99 Marvel 13,724
    (2018)Life of Captain Marvel 5 $3.99 12/19/18 Marvel 27,079

    Those are last numbers, everyone of her books, Only 1 was in real cancelation range. Her book hasn't been relaunched for poor sales 9 times, That is internet myth that people like to say. Her current book as far as know hasn't been canceled Moving right along I see how you think you like Cyborg differently from how I do which is fine. It is cool



    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Wait what? The Sejic version is anything but destroying progress, the only difference is the Ivas version looks more humanistic while the Sejic version looks more like organic nanotech body armor (It reminds me of Crysis to be honest which is an awesome design). Both are progressing in futuristic matters, just with different ideology. Regression is when they revert to the big bulky armor with components looking like CRT screens.
    That is fair but that design, when drawn by someone else, is going to be big and bulky which I think is a step backward, I think it is import for Cyborg to show more flesh than his face or else he is just robotman
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 06-05-2019 at 11:51 AM.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Captain Marvel has a movie that made a billion dollars, Number 1 issue that was the second high selling issue of that month, Is being used at the forefront of events and still has an ongoing. While somehow after being in Justice League the movie, Teen Titan go movie, Young Justice and in several other cartoons, appearing in Doom Patrol, Is a member of Justice League AND Cyborg does not have solo comic and he does not have a movie. The Captian Marvel Backlash is not real and she is not being hurt . She hasn't been affected by backlash Captian Marvel solo book on comichron sells in the 30k to 20k range eventually something Black Panther, Iron Man, Hawkman or Green Arrow many others sell around. Regardless of how many times it has been restarted the her books were never in 10,000 this book is dead meat cancel range.

    If backlash means that DC is going to give a book space grow and bounce after a bad creative team or run, Fine. If Backlash means they put out your solo movie. Fine. If Backlash means in every event you are getting import roles and getting your own book. Fine, If Backlash means DC wants to make you the face to market to a consumer group. Fine. If Backlash means DC putting out the understanding out that Cyborg is an important hero and leader and narratively push you like that.Fine. Y'all is tripping. Next year April 3 was supposed to be his solo movie. But Marvel did something horrible with Captian Marvel lol
    Oh that backlash was real-a former GL artist did 20 hours worth of bashing her. We have more and more Carol (more Brie) bashing videos starting up daily.
    We are in year 13 of Carol having a book.
    She has had 6 restarts. Guess who is behind her? MILES MORALES at 4. Most of her restarts were due to company wide nonsense for restarts.


    While somehow after being in Justice League the movie, Teen Titan go movie, Young Justice and in several other cartoons, appearing in Doom Patrol, Is a member of Justice League AND Cyborg does not have solo comic and he does not have a movie.
    THIS..... this is your JUSTIFICATION for doing a solo, mini, one shot and whatever else you WANT to do with Cyborg.
    What HARD work do you have to do???? His whole BODY is in the door.

    Look at it like this-Cyborg's "push" started in 2011.
    Miles Morales was created in 2011.
    Yet who is in better shape???

    That just tells me DC is NOT interested in fighting. I rather take 20 restarts than not trying at all.
    One thing about Carol-despite her failed runs-they all do well as TRADES. She has 36 trades. Sooner than later she was going to catch on. She had enough stiff out there.

    Cyborg should be the same way.

  6. #381
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    (2012)Captain Marvel 17 $3.99 Marvel 18,173
    (2014)Captain Marvel 15 $3.99 Marvel 19,740
    (2015)Captain Marvel And Carol Corps 4 $3.99 Marvel 22,106
    (2016) Captain Marvel 10 $4.99 Marvel 19,893
    (2017)Mighty Captain Marvel 9 $3.99 Marvel 13,724
    (2018)Life of Captain Marvel 5 $3.99 12/19/18 Marvel 27,079

    Those are last numbers, everyone of her books, Only 1 was in real cancelation range. Her book hasn't been relaunched for poor sales 9 times, That is internet myth that people like to say. Her current book as far as know hasn't been canceled Moving right along I see how you think you like Cyborg differently from how I do which is fine. It is cool
    Those are cancellation numbers in pretty much the ranged I stated they were in and yes when your book is "relaunched" and sent in a completely different direction with no carry over of past story lines its really a cancellation.Books that are performing don't get "relaunched" aka cancelled. See Spiderman for proof of that.

    So… Why Is Marvel Not Cancelling Their Lowest-Selling Comics?
    Posted by Rich Johnston


    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/01...elling-comics/
    Even the shill website has it on its list on the reason why that title is still going.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 06-05-2019 at 12:31 PM.
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  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    JLO is the best thing DC has done with Cyborg in years and I hope that the book sticks around after the current storyline is over.
    Agreed Completely, now if only they could incorporate this same mythos into a Cyborg Solo, it would be gold.


    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    That is fair but that design, when drawn by someone else, is going to be big and bulky which I think is a step backward, I think it is import for Cyborg to show more flesh than his face or else he is just robotman
    But that's not really the fault of the original design, that's the fault if inadequate artist unable to maintain the same silhouette as the original artist did. It's also due to the fact that many artists still prefer a more "classical" approach and prefer to draw him that way,
    plus DC's editoral input of trying to stay "on brand."

    So the blame should lie either on the artist rendition, or editorial keeping things on brand. It definitely shouldn't fall on Sejic design itself, which is definitely a step forward.

  8. #383
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    JLO is the best thing DC has done with Cyborg in years and I hope that the book sticks around after the current storyline is over.
    I actually think the JLO is a step in the right direction but it's not all the way there. Currently, Cyborg could really be replaced with just about anyone and the story would still work. That is a problem.

    Another thing that is wrong is that his design still evokes that he is just a head on big metal body.

    It be nice to have a writer come in and give Cyborg a clear direction that is true to the character. While also just confirming that he is amputee who uses cybernetics and there for he has more human parts then what the art conveys.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 06-05-2019 at 01:42 PM.
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  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    It has more to do than just his looks. If you don't understand that then you really do not understand the character.
    As I've already said, Cyborg's problems are much bigger than his looks. If he can't tell a story that means something it doesn't matter how great his appearance is. But it's a hard sell to argue that the obsessive focus over his lost humanity and messed up face have done him any good in making him a decently selling solo IP with a world to call his own.

    A series of weak writers have demonstrated that that narrative direction doesn't work. If DC is apprehensive to move him from that inherently limiting story because that's not how he was designed a few decades ago, then I agree with others that he doesn't need to be pushed as DC's premier black hero or as a solo character at all frankly. He's better served being squandered along with the rest of the Titans but still getting his "classic" portrayal while someone else gets given a push that allows them to grow out of nostalgic tropes and actually advance as a solo character.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    That's it! They can't move beyond that one note.

    It's absolutely comical that there are those who believe Vic losing out on some tired football career is a core principal to the character. How long should one be tormented over that? Such limited thinking. Beyond the initial shock of his circumstances and after some time, he'd no longer even care about that. Those athletes would be looking up to him because of how his talents would dwarf their own.

    Imagine you have limbs that morph into amazing technological weapons/tools. The ability to fly. Being able to travel to distant world's. Among the world's greatest heroes saving the universe. But, oh wait! You gotta find time to mourn over not playing football with the mere mortals. Yep. That makes sense!
    If anything you'd think a writer at DC of all places would want to turn that into a source of positivity for the character, not something to base his entire narrative around. Not that I feel he shouldn't feel some discomfort over his new body, but come on lol. They could've had more scenes where he's inspiring youth athletes or inspiring kids with prosthetic limbs to take up sports. Hell, instead of having Flash be such a good guy by reminding Cy of his humanity, why not have scenes where he's playing football with Superman and Wonder Woman? Cyborg shouldn't be a happy go lucky character but he should be able to find some happiness in who he is.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    That could realistically bother someone the rest of their lives, actually. I don't know if anyone is actually going to just completely "get over" losing their limbs, even if they do get powers in exchange. Anakin Skywalker didn't just get over it. Batman doesn't just "get over" the murder of his parents. I know people who still talk about stuff from years and years ago, like losing their business, losing a court case, losing their house, and stuff like that, and that isn't nearly as traumatic as losing your limbs.



    This is true. I think Cyborg works okay on certain teams, but DC hasn't gotten him to work as a solo hero, Justice League founder, or a symbol of wish fulfillment power fantasy with a diverse hero in the same way Superman, Batman, and so on are. Again, Cyborg doesn't work as those things largely because Marv Wolfman and George Perez did not create him to be those things. They created him as a tormented man-monster. These discussions are mainly the result of DC's own misguided attempts to...promote Cyborg and have him fill a spot he just doesn't adequately fill.
    You didn't quote the context of what you replied to so I'll just leave your reply to it alone.

    Yes, Wolfman & Perez are credited with creation of the character and that's where it stops. Their intent is irrelevant. They don't own the character so what they may personally like or not like is of no consequence. Same as Isabella with Black Lightning. Credit and that's it. It's just about who gets a check cut.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    You didn't quote the context of what you replied to so I'll just leave your reply to it alone.

    Yes, Wolfman & Perez are credited with creation of the character and that's where it stops. Their intent is irrelevant. They don't own the character so what they may personally like or not like is of no consequence. Same as Isabella with Black Lightning. Credit and that's it. It's just about who gets a check cut.
    What I think he meant was that Cyborg does not possess a foundation for a solo story, like Raven or Beast Boy. They were created to be part of a team and they have continuously been known as team characters for decades and have drifted into just being part of the lore of a team instead of having their own lore as solo characters. When the character doesn’t have a foundation and so commonly associated with a team it would be hard to sell them as solo hero after decades of development being part of a team. For example Wolverine can have his own comics because there was foundation set during his early years that allowed him to eventually carry a solo. But if Cyclops had a solo it wouldn’t be right because he’s commonly associated as Leader of The X men.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    You didn't quote the context of what you replied to so I'll just leave your reply to it alone.
    I did. If you go back and look at my post that you are addressing (#377), you will see the part of the post you are talking about is addressed to Mr. HardKnocks.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    What I think he meant was that Cyborg does not possess a foundation for a solo story, like Raven or Beast Boy. They were created to be part of a team and they have continuously been known as team characters for decades and have drifted into just being part of the lore of a team instead of having their own lore as solo characters. When the character doesn’t have a foundation and so commonly associated with a team it would be hard to sell them as solo hero after decades of development being part of a team. For example Wolverine can have his own comics because there was foundation set during his early years that allowed him to eventually carry a solo. But if Cyclops had a solo it wouldn’t be right because he’s commonly associated as Leader of The X men.
    Yes, I believe all of this. Cyborg doesn't have enough of a foundation to be a good solo character. He wasn't created to have one and no one has given him one in all his years of existing. I would say that the attempts to give Cyborg a foundation have been laughable failures. This is my opinion, but I think the S.T.A.R labs stuff is dull, and besides, I associate S.T.A.R. labs mostly as being a part of Superman's world...not Cyborg's.

    Cyborg's villains were all flops. As for his supporting cast...um...I thought his relationship with Sarah Charles was a little on the dull side. Sheborg was...silly... I guess Black Narcissus was the most interesting of them. I felt John Semper's writing was old fashioned and laughably silly in an unflattering manner.

    There was just no reason to read Cyborg. The comic wasn't good and what was offered in it (basically run of the mill superheroing) wasn't something you couldn't get from some other book and done much better. The only novelty is that it starred a robot with half of a black man's head, and I don't think that's an especially appealing image.

    A good hero does not just need a foundation. He needs a good and fascinating foundation to stimulate readers and make it so they want to escape with the hero into their world.

  15. #390
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    What I think he meant was that Cyborg does not possess a foundation for a solo story, like Raven or Beast Boy. They were created to be part of a team and they have continuously been known as team characters for decades and have drifted into just being part of the lore of a team instead of having their own lore as solo characters. When the character doesn’t have a foundation and so commonly associated with a team it would be hard to sell them as solo hero after decades of development being part of a team. For example Wolverine can have his own comics because there was foundation set during his early years that allowed him to eventually carry a solo. But if Cyclops had a solo it wouldn’t be right because he’s commonly associated as Leader of The X men.
    Is Wolverine really a good example? He wasn't really made to be an anything character, he was just a cool design and cool power. I mean, he didn't even have an origin in his early years (iirc for a long time he couldn't remember anything) until it was created and developed and expanded over years.

    Still, I don't think that's really a valid point considering 1) these are fictional characters, anything is possible and 2) how do you explain people like Dick Grayson/Nightwing who was literally created to be support to Batman? Characters change and evolve all the time because they are imaginary, they can be whatever you make them out to be. With all due respect, I HATE that reason that "oh x character can't do x because they weren't designed that way" or anything like that that treats these characters like they are arbitrarily stuck as one thing because they are inherently one thing. If I wrote for DC and go "oh yeah, Parallax didn't make Hal Jordan slaughter all the Lanterns in Emerald Twilight, he chose to" you can say whatever you want but he's a mass murderer now, that's canon and is the truth if that character now, ya dig? It just comes off like an easy out for lazy writing, lack of commitment to their characters and implies that it's impossible for characters progress (which is patently untrue).
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